Pocket Sized e-Ink Reader?

[Prestidigitweeze]

I scratch my pate when people flock to these threads to pimp the PB 360. To each, h/e/i/r/s own, but you couldn't pay me to choose a Vizplex screen and plastic body over the PRS-350's pearl display and sleek aluminum casement, even in silver.

It isn't a question of Sony over PB. It's a question of Sony's getting it right with this particular iteration of their readers. The newest touch screens are really satisfying as well.

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

I scratch my pate when people flock to these threads to pimp the PB 360. To each, h/e/i/r/s own, but you couldn't pay me to choose a Vizplex screen and plastic body over the PRS-350's pearl display and sleek aluminum casement, even in silver.

It isn't a question of Sony over PB. It's a question of Sony's getting it right with this particular iteration of their readers. The newest touch screens are really satisfying as well.

Agreed. For me, the difference between the pearl and vizplex screens is huge.

[tomereader]

just saw this Kyocera Echo android dual screen smart phone http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/...ml?tag=nl.e723

it reminded me of the readius https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Readius which would really have been a pocket ereader

[JohnnyRocks]

Agreed. Those spouting the benefits of the PB360 over the Sony 350 clearly haven't tried the 350. The page turns alone are reason enough to choose the Sony. Factoring in the significantly better screen, the fact it's a touch screen, the build quality, and the fact that it can now be had even cheaper than the PB, this isn't really a fair comparison. The sony wins on pretty much every front.

[paola]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

It isn't a question of Sony over PB. It's a question of Sony's getting it right with this particular iteration of their readers. The newest touch screens are really satisfying as well.

The thread kicked off with a number of other brands, actually - but coming down to PB and Sony only, for me the choice came down to evaluating the trade offs - I haven't actually seen a PB360, while I have seen (and played around) with the Sony, and I am certainly not arguing agaist its screen or the rest of the hardware, not disputing the usefulness of the touch screen. But I do have a PB903, so I now what their Vizplex screen looks like, and the other positives of the Sony are not enough for me to compensate three features that are top for me: the variety of formats that PB can deal with, the availability of a micro SD card slot, and the fact that I can customize the functions of the device in many ways (ok, the themse are fun but inessential, but e.g. being able to reassigning functions to the various buttons is great).

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

I scratch my pate when people flock to these threads to pimp the PB 360.

Originally Posted by JohnnyRocks

Agreed. Those spouting the benefits of the PB360 over the Sony 350 clearly haven't tried the 350.

maybe you have other threads in mind, but re-reading this it seems to me we have all the usual "suspects" (Kindle, sony, etc) - official selelrs aside, I do not think anyone here gets a royalty if any of the brands makes an extra sale , I presume it is just the enthusiasm of people happy with their purchase: if you put it as above, your comments may come across very much like aggressive pimping for a sony, clearly you haven't tried a PB360

[Latinandgreek]

I love my Sony, but I do admire the pb360. I personally would wait if I did decide to buy one, because I've read in some threads here that a new one might be released soon.

[JohnnyRocks]

Originally Posted by paola

clearly you haven't tried a PB360

Clearly you haven't read my initial post in the thread. I've played with the PB360 extensively, and, there isn't any comparison. I don't make any royalties off Sony sales either, however, it's like comparing a Mercedes with a Honda Civic. There simply isn't any comparison. Better screen (Pearl vs Vizplex...and there IS a difference), a TOUCH screen (swipe to turn the page, and drag to highlight passages), MUCH, MUCH, MUCH faster page turns (most anyone who plays with both at the same time will be drawn to the Sony over the PB360 on this point alone) makes this a pretty unfair comparison. And, when you throw in the fact that you can now get the Sony for LESS than the PB (in spite of the significantly higher end hardware), it's simply a silly argument.

The external memory will not be a factor for most people, given the fact that you can store thousands of books on the internal memory of the Sony. And, since most of us use Calibre anyway, and converting to Epub is as easy as pressing a button, the "variety of formats" is also a non issue.

[paola]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRocks

The external memory will not be a factor for most people, given the fact that you can store thousands of books on the internal memory of the Sony. And, since most of us use Calibre anyway, and converting to Epub is as easy as pressing a button, the "variety of formats" is also a non issue.

It seems to me you are trying to make an argument on what is best in absolute - I am instead arguing that this is not always possible, as it is a matter of different tastes and different priorities for different people.

As for formats, for some types conversion can be very messy (I do not know if you have tried converting djvu files - it may be me, but I have come to the conclusion that life is too short for it ), and as for price at least in my part of the world there is almost a 25% difference (£99 for the PB360 against the cheapest PB350 Sony I could find at £122.40, excluding delivery costs), plus of course in the case of the Sony I would definitely want to have a cover, while for the P360 I can get away without it because of the snap cover (or stick it in a cd case if I want to be sure the keys in my pocket do not scratch the plastic). But even for the same price, the three things I mentioned earlies (formats, SD card, ability to customize my device) still make the PB360 more desirable than the Sony 350 for me.

Of course these are my priorities, and I am not expecting them to be yours - touch is nice, but the other features more than compensate the lack of touch and the plastic case for me. For you it is obviously the other way round, great then: I do not go out assuming that what appears blatantly obvious to me because of my preferences should find everybody else in agreement, and I guess you shouldn't be surprised either.


p.s.
As an aside, I also find the two year warranty on the PB360 attractive - I have been stung with Sony's warranties before (maybe it is the UK, maybe it is only for laptops, but the technical help is a premium number), and PB has a two year cover. Not a dealbreaker, but nice to know it is there.

[Prestidigitweeze]

You're making ad hominem arguments, Paola, which is bad enough, but you're also taking on the role of the ad populum Voice of Common Sense while doing so, which is bad form no matter what position you might be advocating.

Originally Posted by paola

The thread kicked off with a number of other brands, actually

You say actually as if (a) anyone had ever said the thread was entirely about two brands and (b) as if you were correcting the person you were quoting. Clearly you've read unstated meanings and motives into the text you've quoted and are asking and answering questions that are nowhere within it.

the variety of formats that PB can deal with, the availability of a micro SD card slot, and the fact that I can customize the functions of the device in many ways (ok, the themse are fun but inessential, but e.g. being able to reassigning functions to the various buttons is great).

I agree that the software on the PB360 is probably the most user-liberating of any I've seen on a reader. But there are at this point two custom firmware options for the PRS-350, and these, augmented by Calibre, seem to me to address the user's most important needs. There might be certain users who absolutely require the additional two file-type options of the PB360, and those people might be advised to choose that device, but that is a very specific issue involving those particular needs.

I can also agree that an SD card slot is a nice option, and it's one of the reasons I'd like to own a PRS-650 as well. But in terms of a portable reader, I don't find the need for a slot as compelling as I might in a smartphone. Every user is different, and people might have solid reasons for needing an SD slot, but in a highly portable reader, ergonomics, transparency of use, aesthetics, quality and readability can take precedence over certain geeky options no matter how much I might like the idea.

maybe you have other threads in mind, but re-reading this it seems to me we have all the usual "suspects" (Kindle, sony, etc)

Again, you're asking and answering points I never made or suggested. Do take care to respond to what MobileRead members are actually saying rather than attributing foolish ideas to them and then responding with jokes at their expense. Don't imply you're speaking to me when you're actually talking to yourself.

if you put it as above, your comments may come across very much like aggressive pimping for a sony, clearly you haven't tried a PB360

For the moment, let's put aside the logical fallacy in your assuming I haven't tried a PB360 because I prefer the PRS-350. Regardless of my noticing the problems with things like the attached case cover which can be damaged during use (which means that selling or gifting your old 360 means giving someone a scratched original device instead of simply taking off the old third-party cover and buying a new one) and the benefits of its UI, the more pressing concern is your ignorance of the meaning of the word pimping. To pimp (in the original sense used by Iceberg Slim) is not simply to praise one thing over another. It is to entice someone to effectuate a transaction. I've stated by reasons for preferring the 350; you might even say that I was asserting its superiority in terms of hardware (though, objectively, there's little to assert). But what you can't say is that I was doing things like linking to a purchase web site, telling the member who'd asked the question not to hesitate, to buy one today, that they wouldn't regret it, chatting about the great features as if in passing (which is a classic sales technique), etc., etc. I didn't go into that in detail for the simple reason that the subject was the foregrounding of one device over another rather than individual members' conduct, which is best not focused upon in a friendly user forum.

But you, my friend, are putting the focus on individual members rather than the devices being discussed.

Again, I urge you to stop. You're not being logical, you're attributing unverified motives to people and you're using the words they employ incorrectly in an attempt to insult them -- all of which is in bad faith not to mention bad taste.

[paola]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

You're making ad hominem arguments, Paola, which is bad enough, but you're also taking on the role of the ad populum Voice of Common Sense while doing so, which is bad form no matter what position you might be advocating.



You say actually as if (a) anyone had ever said the thread was entirely about two brands and (b) as if you were correcting the person you were quoting. Clearly you've read unstated meanings and motives into the text you've quoted and are asking and answering questions that are nowhere within it.



I agree that the software on the PB360 is probably the most user-liberating of any I've seen on a reader. But there are at this point two custom firmware options for the PRS-350, and these, augmented by Calibre, seem to me to address the user's most important needs. There might be certain users who absolutely require the additional two file-type options of the PB360, and those people might be advised to choose that device, but that is a very specific issue involving those particular needs.

I can also agree that an SD card slot is a nice option, and it's one of the reasons I'd like to own a PRS-650 as well. But in terms of a portable reader, I don't find the need for a slot as compelling as I might in a smartphone. Every user is different, and people might have solid reasons for needing an SD slot, but in a highly portable reader, ergonomics, transparency of use, aesthetics, quality and readability can take precedence over certain geeky options no matter how much I might like the idea.



Again, you're asking and answering points I never made or suggested. Do take care to respond to what MobileRead members are actually saying rather than attributing foolish ideas to them and then responding with jokes at their expense. Don't imply you're speaking to me when you're actually talking to yourself.



For the moment, let's put aside the logical fallacy in your assuming I haven't tried a PB360 because I prefer the PRS-350. Regardless of my noticing the problems with things like the attached case cover which can be damaged during use (which means that selling or gifting your old 360 means giving someone a scratched original device instead of simply taking off the old third-party cover and buying a new one) and the benefits of its UI, the more pressing concern is your ignorance of the meaning of the word pimping. To pimp (in the original sense used by Iceberg Slim) is not simply to praise one thing over another. It is to entice someone to effectuate a transaction. I've stated by reasons for preferring the 350; you might even say that I was asserting its superiority in terms of hardware (though, objectively, there's little to assert). But what you can't say is that I was doing things like linking to a purchase web site, telling the member who'd asked the question not to hesitate, to buy one today, that they wouldn't regret it, chatting about the great features as if in passing (which is a classic sales technique), etc., etc. I didn't go into that in detail for the simple reason that the subject was the foregrounding of one device over another rather than individual members' conduct, which is best not focused upon in a friendly user forum.

But you, my friend, are putting the focus on individual members rather than the devices being discussed.

Again, I urge you to stop. You're not being logical, you're attributing unverified motives to people and you're using the words they employ incorrectly in an attempt to insult them -- all of which is in bad faith not to mention bad taste.

Hi Prestidigitweeze, my mistake putting quotes from two people together, and thereby generating the potential for confusion. I am not a native speaker, and if there was some aggression, it was not meant (indeed, rather the opposite).

On pimping (the initial "charge"): you yourself wrote
"I scratch my pate when people flock[/I] to these threads to pimp the PB 360." This to me must mean you are referring to more than one person inviting explicitly other people to buy a PB360, which did not seem to be the case. My next sentence ("if you put it as above, your comments may come across very much like aggressive pimping for a sony, clearly you haven't tried a PB360 ") was meant in jest (see the emoticon), but I can see this did not come across as intended.

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Every user is different, and people might have solid reasons for needing an SD slot, but in a highly portable reader, ergonomics, transparency of use, aesthetics, quality and readability can take precedence over certain geeky options no matter how much I might like the idea.

Couldn't agree more: and this was (I thought) the sense of my message. I cannot see how you can read what I wrote as some sort of personal attack, but as I said, I must be missing the nuances of the language.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by paola

I must be missing the nuances of the language.

Your command of the language is fine.
You have nothing to apologize for.
As one of the presumptive "pimps" I can tell you that on the internet there will never be a shortage of people willing to take exception to the most rational of positions and offense at the most innofensive of statements that do not slavisly concur with their absolutist positions.
If i may be so bold as to offer a suggestion:
Don't waste effort in seeking a dialog where only agreement is welcome.

Or to put in the vernacular of the net: "Don't feed the trolls. They bite."

[anamardoll]

Well, my PocketBook 360 arrived in the mail yesterday, and I owe a big "thank you" and maybe a drink to everyone who talked me into it.

1. I love the ease of the SD card expansion - the spring mechanism works perfectly (unlike my Cowon MP3 player where you can't get the card out without tweezers and divine intervention). I don't know where this "you can store thousands of books on a 2GB device" meme comes from, but my library is 900 books at 3.5GB and growing, so being able to use a 32GB card to store my library is wonderful. I have four eReaders now (phone + nook + nook color + pocketbook) and I literally receive new eBooks on a daily basis and I really cannot be arsed to hook up four devices to my computer weekly to keep everything in sync - SO much easier to just have the entire library on a single card that can be slapped into a reader before heading out the door!!

2. I love the light plastic casing. The pocketbook fits in my back pocket (Exactly What It Says On The Tin!) and it's so light that my wrists don't tire. I didn't like the relative heaviness of some of the metal-cased eReaders, so this is perfect.

3. I like the screen just fine. I've never really seen the big deal with Pearl screens - there are some very light "ghosting" issues with the PocketBook, but the screen refreshes frequently enough that it's not been a problem. Speaking of:

4. Customization! Love being able to set screen refresh rate and time out behavior and everything else so easily. Love, love, LOVE being able to use different stock readers (and new downloaded readers!) for different book types. Love the fact that so many formats are accepted. (Conversion simply doesn't cut it sometimes.) LOVE being able to map different behavior to different buttons - it's like the makers KNEW I was a control freak with buttons. Love feeling like the device works for me instead of me for it.

5. This may be a minority opinion, but I actually prefer that it's not touchscreen. I don't really need touch screen for a simple reading device - I don't like swiping my fingers across the device to turn a page when a single button press is more minimal movement for me. And while the stylus for notes is nice, not being able to export them (that I could find, anyway) makes them useless to me, and I'd always be afraid of losing the stylus, I suspect. I'll take my notes on my Nook Color / Phone via the Moon+ app with export.

6. Price-wise, in my area, the PocketBook 360 and the Sony PRS 350 were identical. So there's that.

Anyway, thank you all again - I can definitely see why this device has a strong following, and it's perfect for my needs. I do appreciate all the help.

[faithbw]

I'm glad you like the PB 360 anamardoll! I love your detailed review.

[Yar-PocketBooker]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRocks

Clearly you haven't read my initial post in the thread. I've played with the PB360 extensively, and, there isn't any comparison. I don't make any royalties off Sony sales either, however, it's like comparing a Mercedes with a Honda Civic. There simply isn't any comparison. Better screen (Pearl vs Vizplex...and there IS a difference), a TOUCH screen (swipe to turn the page, and drag to highlight passages), MUCH, MUCH, MUCH faster page turns (most anyone who plays with both at the same time will be drawn to the Sony over the PB360 on this point alone) makes this a pretty unfair comparison. And, when you throw in the fact that you can now get the Sony for LESS than the PB (in spite of the significantly higher end hardware), it's simply a silly argument.

The external memory will not be a factor for most people, given the fact that you can store thousands of books on the internal memory of the Sony. And, since most of us use Calibre anyway, and converting to Epub is as easy as pressing a button, the "variety of formats" is also a non issue.

Sony350 is definitely VERY good reader. VERY good. But I would make this comparison not Mercedes to Honda, but Mercedes (Sony, yes, definitely) to BMW, making a classic rivalry...
Yes, the screen is brighter in Sony. Yes, it uses a touchscreen, very responsive one, sure. But it still does not have couple of things that PB does have, besides the memory card:
- snap-on cover - sometimes I think that only this fact would be enough to kill all oponents
- form factor for left-handed folks
- no need to use any additional software with pretty much all existing formats
- price - PB360 is $50 less than PRS-350 in the US.