Trade paper editions and ebooks

[JSWolf]

The iLiad does a lot more then just reading books. Just look int he iLiad forum for all the apps ported over to it just listed here.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by NatCh

Are we still talking about Deed of Paksenarrion? Yeah, I recommend it too, but stay away from Legacy of Gird, it's a bit of a stinker.

Is Legacy of Gird part of the series?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Look up the "Thor Power Tools decision". A Tax Court decision in an unrelated industry affected the way publishers valued inventory, and a whole load of stuff went out of print very quickly.

Thanks for the reference. It's a shame that the industry lost a lucrative way to cheat on their taxes, but that's not a cause of publishing's problems, just one in a host of symptoms.

(Edit: An excellent description of the Thor Power Tools Decision is here.)

The publishing industry has put themselves in this position, thanks to chasing the fastest buck, to the detriment of quality product or consumer benefit. And now, like so many other industries, when it comes time to make a change, they have realized that they don't want to spare the resources needed to invest in new tech because it feels too good watching it fill up their bank accounts.

The American auto industry, when faced with the need to change to more economical cars, simply decided to force their agenda on consumers, and to Hell with change. Of course, it was only a quick fix, designed to get the present stockholders into a comfortable retirement before the bottom fell out. The auto industry now sees how badly that tack worked, as foreign auto makers took advantage of their malaise to move in and capture the markets, and the once-mightly industry is now struggling to remain profitable.

Publishing's retail and distribution channels are changing. In fact, like the auto industry, most of it is being driven by economy, and the new guys are providing it, while the old publishers are trying to keep the consumers' mind off of it with expensive books and big names... literary Hummers. If small publishers and independents similarly move into the gaps left by the big publishers, there won't be much left for the big pubs to do but watch their market share decline even faster. If they do not reverse their prospects, they will become boutique publishers, having nothing left to sell but the Hummers.

[NatCh]

Heh, I think I hear Baen (for one) knocking on that particular door, Steve.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Is Legacy of Gird part of the series?

It's kind of a prequil trilogy meant to fill in the back-story of how Gird got to be a god. It does that fairly well, but I didn't feel that Deed was really lacking without it, and I didn't find the back-story all that captivating.

[IceHand]

I have one question concerning big chains vs. smaller independents: Here in Germany it's forbidden to sell books at anything other than the list price (except used and misprinted books), that's not the case in the US?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by IceHand

I have one question concerning big chains vs. smaller independents: Here in Germany it's forbidden to sell books at anything other than the list price (except used and misprinted books), that's not the case in the US?

No, it isn't.

We used to have the same situation as you in the UK, but the book market "opened up" here about 10 years ago. Since then, a lot of small independent booksellers have gone out of business, and the big retail chains now dominate. On the other hand, many shops now sell popular books at half price or less, and books are sold in supermarkets, which certainly didn't used to be the case.

Regards,

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by IceHand

I have one question concerning big chains vs. smaller independents: Here in Germany it's forbidden to sell books at anything other than the list price (except used and misprinted books), that's not the case in the US?

Wow, and I thought the "Buchpreisbindung" has already been lifted in Germany. Here in Switzerland it was done so earlier this year.

[HarryT]

It used to be called the Net Book Agreement in the UK, and it came into force in 1900. In 1995 the Office of Fair Trading (a government department which controls trading laws) ruled it to be unlawful, and it collapsed shortly afterwards.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by IceHand

I have one question concerning big chains vs. smaller independents: Here in Germany it's forbidden to sell books at anything other than the list price (except used and misprinted books), that's not the case in the US?

This is from my own experience as a former bookseller and buyer for (at that time), the largest independent bookstore in Arkansas:

Some books are charged a net price to the store, such as law books, medical and nursing books, and it is up to the store to decide what percent of margin they want to raise the book from its net pricing.

The example books I mentioned above are not pre-priced, so a store figures in the shipping costs (huge!), overhead, inventory, staff payroll, etc. and then prices the books accordingly.

Lay books are totally different, of course.

Don

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Thanks for the reference. It's a shame that the industry lost a lucrative way to cheat on their taxes, but that's not a cause of publishing's problems, just one in a host of symptoms.

(Edit: An excellent description of the Thor Power Tools Decision is here.)

Yes, I've read that, and it's a good summary. But I never claimed that decision was responsible for Publishing's woes. (And I know folks who think the publishing industry badly handled its legal defense in that case. That would not surprise me, and publishing has a bigger than normal helping of institutional stupidity.)

The publishing industry has put themselves in this position, thanks to chasing the fastest buck, to the detriment of quality product or consumer benefit. And now, like so many other industries, when it comes time to make a change, they have realized that they don't want to spare the resources needed to invest in new tech because it feels too good watching it fill up their bank accounts.

It's a little more complicated than that, and it isn't clear what "new tech" you think they aren't investing in.

The American auto industry, when faced with the need to change to more economical cars, simply decided to force their agenda on consumers, and to Hell with change. Of course, it was only a quick fix, designed to get the present stockholders into a comfortable retirement before the bottom fell out. The auto industry now sees how badly that tack worked, as foreign auto makers took advantage of their malaise to move in and capture the markets, and the once-mightly industry is now struggling to remain profitable.

The biggest problem facing the American auto industry these days is the cost structure. Thanks to contracts originally negotiated in the salad days when GM's problem was to keep market share below 35% to avoid anti-trust issues, American auto manufacturers are stuck with labor costs which are a multiple of those at foreign competitors. Delphi Automotive, a former GM unit, went Chapter 11 not that long back, and there were rumors Ford and GM might do likewise. Delphi sells parts to automakers. Because of the sort of contracts I mentioned, that have workers making $60/hour in pay and benefits, but must compete with foreign suppliers whose average labor costs were more like $10/hour.

And the Big Three are in a situation where there are now more retired workers expecting to collect pension and health care benefits than currently employed workers paying into the funds that provide it. Unfunded pension liabilities are an albatross around the Big Three's neck, and may yet drag them down.

Publishing's retail and distribution channels are changing. In fact, like the auto industry, most of it is being driven by economy, and the new guys are providing it, while the old publishers are trying to keep the consumers' mind off of it with expensive books and big names... literary Hummers. If small publishers and independents similarly move into the gaps left by the big publishers, there won't be much left for the big pubs to do but watch their market share decline even faster. If they do not reverse their prospects, they will become boutique publishers, having nothing left to sell but the Hummers.

The small publishers won't have an easy time of moving in. They have two major hurdles, marketing and distribution. Their first problem is how they make the buyer aware they exist and offer books the buyer might want. The second problem is how they get those books into the buyer's hands. That second problem got a lot bigger last December, when Publisher's Group West filed for bankruptcy, as a result of problems in their parent company, Advanced Marketing Services. PGW distributed a lot of independent presses, who had to scramble to find new homes. Some folded, because PGW went Chapter 11 leaving them unpaid, and small publishers typically live hand-to-mouth and can't handle an interruption in their cash flow. Some which have found other homes are changing radically, such as Carroll and Graf, who will apparently no longer publish fiction.

(See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG9DNQ8TM1.DTL) for one of many stories on the matter.)

And some imprints, while technically independant, rely on major publishers. Baen Books, for example, is manufactured and distributed by Simon and Schuster.

And selling only Hummers isn't necessarily viable. You may recall Lyle Stuart, Inc., who specialized in exposes, "unauthorized biographies" and the like. They published a dozen titles a year, promoted the hell out of them, and hoped a few would become best sellers and cover the losses on the rest. They got away with it for years, but eventually hit a patch where they didn't have any best sellers and had to fold.
______
Dennis

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

It's a little more complicated than that, and it isn't clear what "new tech" you think they aren't investing in.

Mainly, e-book tech... choosing HW and SW platforms and jumping in.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The small publishers won't have an easy time of moving in. They have two major hurdles, marketing and distribution. Their first problem is how they make the buyer aware they exist and offer books the buyer might want. The second problem is how they get those books into the buyer's hands.

The small pubs can take advantage of the e-book market as it developes, and get a leg up ahead of the big pubs. Capturing the attention of the market in segments, making good marketing and advertising deals, etc, will get them attention. As far as distribution, electronic distribution can't be much easier.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

And selling only Hummers isn't necessarily viable.

It can be, but not for a company fitted out to sell millions of autos a year. Only boutique companies can handle single inventory, and as you point out, if that product isn't popular enough, you're out of business. So you'd better make a damned good Hummer.

[pwalker8]

The ebook market seems to be very much like the music market was prior to iTunes. There were quite a few mp3 players, I have several sitting in a box in my closet. Then Apple came out with a product that might, nor might not be technically superior, but what it did do is provide a comprehensive solution for the consumer and in a short time, it dominated the market. Prior to iTunes, the electronic music market was very much a niche market. Now iTunes is number three in total sales for music. The technology is there to make eBooks popular, what is missing is content.

Someone else mentions iPods and phones as book readers. I rather doubt that will be the case. If they eventually standardize on a format for ebooks, then I think we will see a huge jump in sales of ebook readers. There is a huge potential market. Look at the short time it took for people to gravitate to mp3 players, especially once online music became easily available. My prediction is that we will see a jump on e-books like we saw in e-music within the next five years. The only question is what will the common format be.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

The iPod is clearly very successful, but not really superior to all MP3 players. There are still other MP3 players out there, and many prefer the model they have over iPods because they are better designed for the way they listen to music. Similarly, e-books could see a single reader (like the Sony) become the most popular reader, but there will always be room for other readers that tailor the experience for the user.

Fact is, iTunes did not create the MP3 market, it merely capitalized on it, in conjunction with a player that the service was optimized for, the iPod. MP3s were already there, already standardized, and waiting for a successfully profitable delivery mechanism. The e-book market needs exactly that, a successful delivery mechanism, whether it is one store/website, or a method shared by many stores/sites.

A unifying format is clearly the next needed step. ePub would be a good common format, with readers either designed to automatically unpack and open the files, or sold with SW that converts ePub to their native format (I'd prefer the former as a sensible solution, but really, either one works).

You may doubt the use of phones and iPods for e-book reading, but it's already happening, going like gangbusters in the Japanese market. It's hard to imagine reading on a smaller screen size if you haven't tried it, but like so many other things, if you want to do it, you can often get used to it. I've gone from a paperback to a PDA screen (one-third the size), and I have no problem with it.