Who killed the bookstore? - Page 3

Ken Maltby · 03-17-2011, 03:50 AM

At some point we will realize that an AI can educate students better than a union teacher. Then that it is cheaper to provide a "schoolnet" and interactive terminals to
the temporary detention centers we still call schools. For some communities, at home or
commercially run "day care"/schools may provide a competitive option, but the state
supplied curriculum would be available for free and a progress evaluation testing regimen would be imposed. So, everyone will be trained and acclimated to using a network.

At this point, all digital goods and almost all physical goods will be purchased by interacting with the regional portion of the internet. Poor, rich or whatever we will all
have been assimilated. Resistance is futile. (I'm sure Steve Jobs would agree.)

It's Logistics, as well.

Why have all those stores, all selling the same goods, anyway? Isn't the name brand
product I pickup in Philly supposed to be exactly the same as that product sold in
San Francisco? Aren't all boxes of Cheerios the same, no matter where you buy them? Even name brand goods that are made locally like "Big Macs" or "Pizza Hut" pizza are
expected to be the same, are they not? I would hope that the a particular novel I buy
on the internet is the same as one purchased at a local store.

But you want to take a real good look at the things you purchase, right? Pick it up and
see how it feels? Well, there is a thing called "Telepresence" now and at some point it
could evolve into a new shopping experience. I seem to remember an ad where you could remotely drive a new car.

The small local store might still serve a function but it will have to be something other
than simply offering brand name goods for sale.

Luck;
Ken

J. Strnad · 03-19-2011, 12:44 PM

This same article was posted at Kindleboards, and the responses were about the same...as mine will be!

It is a selfish and juvenile love that professes to love something but gives nothing in return. (See "parasite" in the dictionary.) Anyone who "loves" to walk around their local bookstore and pick up books and read a little and discover new books and new authors really needs to buy a book there if they want to continue to have that option. It isn't "love" if they then go home and download the books to their Kindle. That's "using," it's unsustainable, and soon enough that option will go away while those users shed copious crocodile tears over losing their "beloved" bookstores. (I'm reminded of the guy who killed his parents and then pleaded for mercy from the court because he was an orphan.)

If you really love something, you give to it, you nurture it, you help it to survive. You don't just take what you want from it.

People don't love local bookstores enough for them to survive. End of story.

I'll have, as long as my brain cooperates, very fond memories of the local libraries and local bookstores of my youth. But the world changed and they became less integral to my life. We may lament the change, but who wants to turn back the clock to the days when books and their content were available ONLY at local bookstores and local libraries? (Apart from the publishers who are fighting the changes tooth and nail, of course.)

kennyc · 03-19-2011, 12:50 PM

Ask not what your bookstore can give to you, but what you can give to your bookstore.

Giggleton · 03-19-2011, 01:16 PM

There's lots of niche bookstores around, focusing on a single genre. Large cities could definitely have at least a few small storefronts dedicated to local authors.

But smalltown America?? Their bookstore, maybe two, will probably be community run i.e. library.

That's short term stuff though, most reading will be ereading of course.

jbcohen · 03-19-2011, 01:30 PM

Yeah some of the large cities, such as my home town Washington, DC has a few small store front book stores left, but the owner of one once told me that "Its so cheap and easy for people to get books these days with the advent of electronic books that I really can't compete. It simply costs too much to come to my small front book store these days, my customers are simply not willing to pay for the gas in the cars to come to my store, they much prefer for the stores to come to them then the other way around. "

Nyssa · 03-19-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

This same article was posted at Kindleboards, and the responses were about the same...as mine will be!

It is a selfish and juvenile love that professes to love something but gives nothing in return. (See "parasite" in the dictionary.) Anyone who "loves" to walk around their local bookstore and pick up books and read a little and discover new books and new authors really needs to buy a book there if they want to continue to have that option. It isn't "love" if they then go home and download the books to their Kindle. That's "using," it's unsustainable, and soon enough that option will go away while those users shed copious crocodile tears over losing their "beloved" bookstores. (I'm reminded of the guy who killed his parents and then pleaded for mercy from the court because he was an orphan.)

If you really love something, you give to it, you nurture it, you help it to survive. You don't just take what you want from it.

People don't love local bookstores enough for them to survive. End of story.

I'll have, as long as my brain cooperates, very fond memories of the local libraries and local bookstores of my youth. But the world changed and they became less integral to my life. We may lament the change, but who wants to turn back the clock to the days when books and their content were available ONLY at local bookstores and local libraries? (Apart from the publishers who are fighting the changes tooth and nail, of course.)

Although stated a little stronger than I would have put it myself, I agree with this post.
My love of bookstores stemmed from my love of books, not really the stores themselves. Yes, there is a part of me that likes/liked to browse, but the prize was bringing something new (or at least new to me) home.

Now that I can do that from the comfort of wherever I am, and have it instantly, my desire to visit a bookstore isn't really as strong as it once was.

In fact, the most recent visits to the bookstore are more for my children than for myself. It gives them the opportunity to see a large variety of stories "just for them". It is especially appreciated, as our local library is pretty pathetic.

I believe, however, as they get older they too will lean more towards digital options.

faithbw · 03-19-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

The internet is killing the bookstore. Physical stores have limited space, which means limited titles. OR I can go to Amazon and order absolutely anything, and usually cheaper. When bookstores started to lose money, they began subsidizing their book sales with miscellaneous junk: trinkets, dvds, cds, cups of coffee... and that may be fine for the average person, but that drove me to Amazon even more because all those other things meant even less room for books. (And why on earth did they start carrying dvds and cds when everything was going digital???)

I essentially stopped shopping locally when I could never find the book I wanted (as 'local' as B&N and Borders can be considered...). I typically only buy two types of books in paper format: crafty books (knit, crochet, etc) and cookbooks. It's much faster to get these books from my library or Amazon than to special order them from Borders or B&N.

Bookstores need to find a way to 1. carry the titles I want and 2. give me access to ebooks. I can imagine a store that has 1-2 copies of, say, one million different books. Let people browse the physical books, then let them purchase the ebook right there. Maybe it's as simple as scanning the book somewhere and telling the computer to send this book to that device. Of course, in order to make this truly effective, DRM will have to fall by the wayside at some point... otherwise bookstore survival will become all about the device rather than the book.

This is a problem for bookstores but I don't really know how they can solve it. Like you said, physical stores have limited space so their selection of titles can never be as vast as Amazon. This has even been an issue for me and my husband. We'll place a book on hold if we can't buy it at the store when we're there but a lot of other people won't be willing to wait.

Plus, there are times when a book can be placed on hold but then not come through. This happened to a former co-worker at Borders.

Print on demand and e-book kiosks might be the way to go for bookstores. Although I still wonder how many people would be willing to go to a bookstore to get an ebook. It'll be interesting to see how bookstores survive this change in technology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

This same article was posted at Kindleboards, and the responses were about the same...as mine will be!

It is a selfish and juvenile love that professes to love something but gives nothing in return. (See "parasite" in the dictionary.) Anyone who "loves" to walk around their local bookstore and pick up books and read a little and discover new books and new authors really needs to buy a book there if they want to continue to have that option. It isn't "love" if they then go home and download the books to their Kindle. That's "using," it's unsustainable, and soon enough that option will go away while those users shed copious crocodile tears over losing their "beloved" bookstores. (I'm reminded of the guy who killed his parents and then pleaded for mercy from the court because he was an orphan.)

If you really love something, you give to it, you nurture it, you help it to survive. You don't just take what you want from it.

People don't love local bookstores enough for them to survive. End of story.

I'll have, as long as my brain cooperates, very fond memories of the local libraries and local bookstores of my youth. But the world changed and they became less integral to my life. We may lament the change, but who wants to turn back the clock to the days when books and their content were available ONLY at local bookstores and local libraries? (Apart from the publishers who are fighting the changes tooth and nail, of course.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Ask not what your bookstore can give to you, but what you can give to your bookstore.

I guess this is what it really comes down to. I think that ultimately for most people, bookstores themselves are expendable. I don't have a problem with people who prefer buying a book on the internet over bookstore and say so. I do have a problem with people who bemoan the loss of bookstores and then go and a buy from Amazon because Amazon is cheaper. If you're doing that, then you don't really care about bookstores but your pocketbook. Which is fine but just say that. Don't put up a front about caring about bookstores.

jbcohen · 03-19-2011, 05:41 PM

Excellent question faith bw. How will book stores survive this change over in technology? My conjecture will be that they will survive by imitating Amazon, as borders and BN are already starting to do. They will sell you any title listed in in Books in Print in electronic format within minutes directly to your device. I read directly on my company provided blackberry, while I admit this method has its problems, it does allow me to combine my cell phone and electronic reader so that I can carry one device rather than two devices. And I can accomplish a stunt no one else can - I can read a Kindle book, then a Nook book (no ryme intended) then go straight to reading a borders book, just you try that with your dedicated reader.

What I am looking forward to is the next step in evolution beyond electronic reading: perhaps we will have a chip in planted in our brains and books will be sent directly to the brain. Realistically speaking the next step, I am told is the merge of electronic books and the tablet PCs with the tablets taking over this function.

rleguillow · 03-19-2011, 05:41 PM

I am an avid reader, and have about 1500 physical books in my house (mostly hardback) as well as ebooks and audio books. Each format works for me in its place. So I'm happy to head out to my local B&N and mosey up and down the aisles, looking for familiar authors and being introduced to new ones.

I hear that one of "my" authors has a new one coming out, and I post it in my calendar so I can go get it right away.

But when I knowthat I can buy that book from B&N online cheaper than in the store, and with free shipping, why should I go to the brick&mortar store and spend my hard-earned dollars? If I spend less on this book, I have more to spend on that book.

I'd like to see in-store books selling at the same price as online, or for less. I know that B&N makes more money out of me, through impulse buying, when I'm in their stores. I walk in going for one book and come out $100 poorer and carrying a lot more than I was going for. Problem is, since I know I can get the same book online for less, I'm more likely to go online for my one book - and I don't do much impulse buying online. If they reversed their system - cheaper in the brick&mortar than online, they might see some trends reversing also.

Just my opinion.

MV64 · 03-19-2011, 07:53 PM

As someone who works in a bookstore, it's simple: $30 hardcovers killed bookstores.

Just as in any industry, there is a point where the cost is no longer equal or less than the benefit, and conscious or not, consumers make this decision.

Richey79 · 03-20-2011, 06:14 AM

The patterns of living have changed. Everyone wants to live in the suburbs and wants to absolutely maximise what they do in their free time. I would have to go a couple-of-hours (at least) out of my way to spend a relaxing thirty minutes sitting in a book-shop's cafe drinking a coffee and reading. Frankly, this requires way too much pre-planning to be relaxing. Students are pretty much the only people who have the time and are conveniently situated for this to be an attractive option.

On the other hand, I can take forty seconds to make a coffee and sit in my comfy chair or in the garden, pick up any book as the mood takes me and instantly begin reading from where I left off. This is convenient enough to do in a ten-minute break between house-hold jobs.

I'm afraid that, if I'm going to take the time and effort to go into town to spend some quality time, I'm going to be meeting friends for a drink or a meal these days.

mldavis2 · 03-20-2011, 08:25 AM

I think bookstores are dead except for specialty shops. But we no longer have blacksmiths, firemen on locomotives, etc. either.

I see two modes of potential survival for brick & mortar stores. One is to display the colorful coffee-table display books that just will never work on an eReader for obvious reasons.

The other is what makes a precious few big-city corner bookstores an attraction...an owner who loves books and encourages readers with book reading groups, recommendations off the pop-lists, and willingness to sustain and encourage a faithful clientele who will buy books to support the owner.

Sadly, I live in rural America, and there are no such books stores within half a tank of fuel, so I buy online. I really can't afford $30 worth of fuel and a couple of hours driving every time I want to drop in a bookstore to browse for a $15 paperback.

HarryT · 03-20-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

And I can accomplish a stunt no one else can - I can read a Kindle book, then a Nook book (no ryme intended) then go straight to reading a borders book, just you try that with your dedicated reader.

Please stop saying this. You've been told time and time again that it's completely untrue.

carld · 03-20-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcreative

So anybody who can't afford a computer and/or eReader no longer deserves to be able to read... nice...

It's the way of the world. Your personal income puts limitations on what you can do. It has nothing to do with deserving something. If I can't drive to the library or arrange for them to ship me something (and how often does that happen?) then i don't have access to the library's collection. If I can't afford a TV then I can't watch it no matter if programming is free or not whether I deserve it or not.

mldavis2 · 03-20-2011, 10:30 AM

You can read anything on a laptop or notepad if you can endure the shiny screens and inflexible seating positions and short recharge cycles. I've tried reading on my iPhone and Blackberry and it's a joke. Yes, you 'can' do it, but who wants to? Grab a copy of Calibre and convert to your eReader format and enjoy. Fit the tool to the job, not the other way 'round.

03-19-2011, 05:41 PM	#39
rleguillow Always Reading Posts: 110 Karma: 1002645 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Carolina Device: FW 1192, PRS-700, kobo, Rocket, PRS-650, Nook Glow, Kobo Glo, others	Bookstores are committing suicide, IMHO I am an avid reader, and have about 1500 physical books in my house (mostly hardback) as well as ebooks and audio books. Each format works for me in its place. So I'm happy to head out to my local B&N and mosey up and down the aisles, looking for familiar authors and being introduced to new ones. I hear that one of "my" authors has a new one coming out, and I post it in my calendar so I can go get it right away. But when I knowthat I can buy that book from B&N online cheaper than in the store, and with free shipping, why should I go to the brick&mortar store and spend my hard-earned dollars? If I spend less on this book, I have more to spend on that book. I'd like to see in-store books selling at the same price as online, or for less. I know that B&N makes more money out of me, through impulse buying, when I'm in their stores. I walk in going for one book and come out $100 poorer and carrying a lot more than I was going for. Problem is, since I know I can get the same book online for less, I'm more likely to go online for my one book - and I don't do much impulse buying online. If they reversed their system - cheaper in the brick&mortar than online, they might see some trends reversing also. Just my opinion.

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03-17-2011, 03:50 AM	#31
Ken Maltby Wizard Posts: 4,466 Karma: 6900052 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Heart of Texas Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,	At some point we will realize that an AI can educate students better than a union teacher. Then that it is cheaper to provide a "schoolnet" and interactive terminals to the temporary detention centers we still call schools. For some communities, at home or commercially run "day care"/schools may provide a competitive option, but the state supplied curriculum would be available for free and a progress evaluation testing regimen would be imposed. So, everyone will be trained and acclimated to using a network. At this point, all digital goods and almost all physical goods will be purchased by interacting with the regional portion of the internet. Poor, rich or whatever we will all have been assimilated. Resistance is futile. (I'm sure Steve Jobs would agree.) It's Logistics, as well. Why have all those stores, all selling the same goods, anyway? Isn't the name brand product I pickup in Philly supposed to be exactly the same as that product sold in San Francisco? Aren't all boxes of Cheerios the same, no matter where you buy them? Even name brand goods that are made locally like "Big Macs" or "Pizza Hut" pizza are expected to be the same, are they not? I would hope that the a particular novel I buy on the internet is the same as one purchased at a local store. But you want to take a real good look at the things you purchase, right? Pick it up and see how it feels? Well, there is a thing called "Telepresence" now and at some point it could evolve into a new shopping experience. I seem to remember an ad where you could remotely drive a new car. The small local store might still serve a function but it will have to be something other than simply offering brand name goods for sale. Luck; Ken

03-19-2011, 12:44 PM	#32
J. Strnad Guru Posts: 915 Karma: 3537194 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo, Kindle 3, Paperwhite	This same article was posted at Kindleboards, and the responses were about the same...as mine will be! It is a selfish and juvenile love that professes to love something but gives nothing in return. (See "parasite" in the dictionary.) Anyone who "loves" to walk around their local bookstore and pick up books and read a little and discover new books and new authors really needs to buy a book there if they want to continue to have that option. It isn't "love" if they then go home and download the books to their Kindle. That's "using," it's unsustainable, and soon enough that option will go away while those users shed copious crocodile tears over losing their "beloved" bookstores. (I'm reminded of the guy who killed his parents and then pleaded for mercy from the court because he was an orphan.) If you really love something, you give to it, you nurture it, you help it to survive. You don't just take what you want from it. People don't love local bookstores enough for them to survive. End of story. I'll have, as long as my brain cooperates, very fond memories of the local libraries and local bookstores of my youth. But the world changed and they became less integral to my life. We may lament the change, but who wants to turn back the clock to the days when books and their content were available ONLY at local bookstores and local libraries? (Apart from the publishers who are fighting the changes tooth and nail, of course.)

03-19-2011, 12:50 PM	#33
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,903 Karma: 119230421 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2; Kindle Fire	Ask not what your bookstore can give to you, but what you can give to your bookstore.

03-19-2011, 01:16 PM	#34
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	There's lots of niche bookstores around, focusing on a single genre. Large cities could definitely have at least a few small storefronts dedicated to local authors. But smalltown America?? Their bookstore, maybe two, will probably be community run i.e. library. That's short term stuff though, most reading will be ereading of course.

03-19-2011, 01:30 PM	#35
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,032 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	Yeah some of the large cities, such as my home town Washington, DC has a few small store front book stores left, but the owner of one once told me that "Its so cheap and easy for people to get books these days with the advent of electronic books that I really can't compete. It simply costs too much to come to my small front book store these days, my customers are simply not willing to pay for the gas in the cars to come to my store, they much prefer for the stores to come to them then the other way around. "

03-19-2011, 07:53 PM	#40
MV64 Addict Posts: 271 Karma: 2000000 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: Sony PRS-505	As someone who works in a bookstore, it's simple: $30 hardcovers killed bookstores. Just as in any industry, there is a point where the cost is no longer equal or less than the benefit, and conscious or not, consumers make this decision.

03-20-2011, 06:14 AM	#41
Richey79 mrkrgnao Posts: 241 Karma: 237248 Join Date: May 2010 Device: PRS650, K3 Wireless, Galaxy S3, iPad 3.	The patterns of living have changed. Everyone wants to live in the suburbs and wants to absolutely maximise what they do in their free time. I would have to go a couple-of-hours (at least) out of my way to spend a relaxing thirty minutes sitting in a book-shop's cafe drinking a coffee and reading. Frankly, this requires way too much pre-planning to be relaxing. Students are pretty much the only people who have the time and are conveniently situated for this to be an attractive option. On the other hand, I can take forty seconds to make a coffee and sit in my comfy chair or in the garden, pick up any book as the mood takes me and instantly begin reading from where I left off. This is convenient enough to do in a ten-minute break between house-hold jobs. I'm afraid that, if I'm going to take the time and effort to go into town to spend some quality time, I'm going to be meeting friends for a drink or a meal these days.

03-20-2011, 08:25 AM	#42
mldavis2 Coffee Nut Posts: 410 Karma: 298350 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Missouri Device: Kindle 3; K4PC; Calibre	I think bookstores are dead except for specialty shops. But we no longer have blacksmiths, firemen on locomotives, etc. either. I see two modes of potential survival for brick & mortar stores. One is to display the colorful coffee-table display books that just will never work on an eReader for obvious reasons. The other is what makes a precious few big-city corner bookstores an attraction...an owner who loves books and encourages readers with book reading groups, recommendations off the pop-lists, and willingness to sustain and encourage a faithful clientele who will buy books to support the owner. Sadly, I live in rural America, and there are no such books stores within half a tank of fuel, so I buy online. I really can't afford $30 worth of fuel and a couple of hours driving every time I want to drop in a bookstore to browse for a $15 paperback.

03-20-2011, 10:30 AM	#45
mldavis2 Coffee Nut Posts: 410 Karma: 298350 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Missouri Device: Kindle 3; K4PC; Calibre	You can read anything on a laptop or notepad if you can endure the shiny screens and inflexible seating positions and short recharge cycles. I've tried reading on my iPhone and Blackberry and it's a joke. Yes, you 'can' do it, but who wants to? Grab a copy of Calibre and convert to your eReader format and enjoy. Fit the tool to the job, not the other way 'round.

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