Kindle e-Book piracy accelerates - from CNET

[silasgreenback]

Originally Posted by Piper_

There's a psychological element, too. Rather than position themselves as adversarial to e-readers, they should embrace this new audience, taking advantage of the ability to interact and thus win our affection.

...yet some of them act so FREAKED OUT and so pro-DRM as to seem hostile to all comers, that at least for me, it's certainly ruined any kind of potential sale.

If an author is nearly unknown, it doesn't help business to have potential readers only associate them with being scornful about their market. Especially with genre fiction.

Then again, if any measure to deter piracy is worth it, alienating readers is certainly effective.

[Kali Yuga]

Mr. Ploppy:

1) The article you quoted is from 2008.
2) Global music sales -- as in, the combination of all formats -- are utterly tanking. Global sales fell 9% in 2010, 7% in 2009, another 7% in 2008, 10% in 2007, 3% in 2006, 1.3% in 2005. In fact, global sales have fallen steadily since 2000; in the US, sales figures dropped in half between 2006 and 2010.
3) Digital sales did not grow in 2010, leading some to believe the format may have plateaued.
4) And yes, as you pointed out, approximately 1 out of 20 downloads are infringing.

There are many reasons for a 10+ year decline in sales, including a significantly reduced need to repurchase for a new format (a process which buoyed CD sales for many years). But piracy is clearly another one.

You might want to broaden your knowledge beyond one single article written 3 years ago before proclaiming that piracy hasn't affected sales.


On a separate note, last I heard used books were around 15% of total sales. It's probably a higher percentage of education sales.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Catlady

I don't understand why he seems so concerned with how small book files are and how quickly they can be downloaded. So what?

He's concerned by the possibility that someone could download a massive library of published books in a few hours.

E.g. if you can download every book written by Steven King in 30 minutes, for free, then Mr King and his publisher may regard that as a serious problem.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Technology advancements kill some industries and create new ones. Get used to it.

I'm mostly used to it. But "technology advancements" doesn't mean that something which is problematic is, well, not problematic.

Originally Posted by Sonist

The software industry faced the problem of piracy way before the music and publishing industry. At first they tried going draconian, some even using hardware dongles. Now that the dust has settled, they have all moved away from draconian DRM methods and are still doing robust business.

You're kidding, right?

Tons of apps still use DRM, including Adobe, Microsoft, Autodesk, Valve (Steam) lots of games. Microsoft will kick you off of Xbox Live for tampering with the hardware, will kick you off Windows if it isn't activated, and will refuse to give you OS updates if they can't verify that your copy is "verified." Apple's brand spanking new App Store uses DRM.

Who is this "all" that has ditched DRM?

Originally Posted by Sonist

But they (and the author of this pointless article) forget that the ease of downloading also encourage spontaneous purchases.

I don't think that's the case at all.

Amazon figured out immediately the importance of ease of use and purchase; Apple also "gets it" as demonstrated by iTunes and App Store for OS X; others are following suit.

Removing roadblocks doesn't seem to have helped much though. Again: The music industry now offers digital downloads, without DRM, in a clean and organized content, that's easy to search and a snap to purchase. Yet piracy hasn't slowed down at all, and global music sales are still falling.

Plus, digital sales stayed on an upwards trajectory for many years whilst using DRM. There's no indication so far that DRM has driven music listeners off.

This is not to say that DRM is "good" or "ideal" or "preferable." Rather, there's simply no indication at this time that DRM stunts sales, that eschewing DRM sends sales through the roof, or that offering dramatic improvements in the customer experience reduces piracy rates.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

I, for one, do not purchase downloadable music because it doesn't live up to my quality standards for the price....

That's nice. That also, as far as I know, puts you in a decided minority.

After all, there are reasons why FLAC did not become the standard. One is that most people don't mind lossy compressed music. In fact, the average listener apparently can't distinguish between a 64 kbps and a 256 kbps MP3.

Originally Posted by MovieBird

At 99 cents per song, a standard album costs more to purchase as downloadable content, than the physical CD. I simply won't pay more for something ethereal, when a physical, digital, product ensures I can keep my purchase with me.

Err? Most downloaded albums tend to be around $10 (and no sales tax or shipping costs), whereas CD's were $15-$18 until a few months ago.

And, of course, you can make as many backups as you like of your downloaded music.

Originally Posted by MovieBird

How does this relate to music piracy? Well, think about it, the worst offenders are A) hoarders B) enthusiasts. You can't care about hoarders because those aren't sales anyways. Enthusiasts, you can capture sales from, but you have to provide a high quality product for them to purchase. Right now there's an easier, cheaper, and higher quality product for the taking.

Nice theory. I don't see much evidence for it, though.

I do agree that the "hoarders" collect far more than they need, and as I think I mentioned earlier, chances are you'll get more of this in books than music -- and that it probably means the ratio of "downloads to lost sales" is lower for books than music.

But to me it's fairly clear that a good chunk of pirates are people who simply do not want to pay for digital content. There are numerous rationalizations for this -- "it's not like shoplifting" or "it's got DRM" or "the artist doesn't get paid anyway," but ultimately much of the time it comes down to "I don't wanna pay."

As to the enthusiasts: Pirated music is all over the map in terms of quality and bitrates and naming conventions, and is often accompanied by all those lovely ads for "Russian Laides Looking For Friendship." Again FLAC did not take off, and CD sales are sinking faster than the Titanic, so there goes the "higher quality" theory.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

He's concerned by the possibility that someone could download a massive library of published books in a few hours.

E.g. if you can download every book written by Steven King in 30 minutes, for free, then Mr King and his publisher may regard that as a serious problem.

Yeah, but I repeat: so what? What difference does it make if it takes the pirate 30 minutes or 30 hours?

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Yeah, but I repeat: so what? What difference does it make if it takes the pirate 30 minutes or 30 hours?

It doesn't. And the point that's overlooked again and again: of those who download King's entire oeuvre, how many would have bought the same at retail prices? Those who download "2500 Kindle ebooks", how many would have legally bought them if they hadn't been able to down them? Exactly.

[astra]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

he bashed e-book pricing at $12.99 and $14.99. Has he not been to a local bookstore lately? Most books are more than that; most hard covers and trade paperbacks are way more than that.

Really?
I buy online only, Amazon. It is almost never more expensive.
Very often you can buy on amazon and high street bookstores paperbacks 3 for 2.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Piper_

It's so simple, and many authors already get it. But it's interesting to wonder why they all don't.

They can't get over this idea (probably fed to them by publishers desperate to hang onto them) that they are losing $10billion of income every time one of their books appears on a pirate site.

When you ask if they would rather someone reads their book for free or reads someone else's book for free they sometimes get it, but it depends on how how rationally they think. The idea of losing $10billion of income is very upsetting for a writer who is only making $100 a week in royalties.

[Richey79]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Mr. Ploppy:


4) And yes, as you pointed out, approximately 1 out of 20 downloads are infringing.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

■Tens of billions of illegal files were swapped in 2007. The ratio of unlicensed tracks downloaded to legal tracks sold is about 20 to 1.

You might want to re-read the proportion he was citing.

And yet the music industry still manage to increase their profitability year-on-year.

It's a vicious circle: as they become less and less willing to take any kind of risk on interesting artists, music fans (understandably) want their product less and less.

Hopefully, because it's far more feasible to self-publish, we won't see exactly the same phenomenon across the board in publishing.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Mr. Ploppy:

1) The article you quoted is from 2008.
2) Global music sales -- as in, the combination of all formats -- are utterly tanking. Global sales fell 9% in 2010, 7% in 2009, another 7% in 2008, 10% in 2007, 3% in 2006, 1.3% in 2005. In fact, global sales have fallen steadily since 2000; in the US, sales figures dropped in half between 2006 and 2010.
3) Digital sales did not grow in 2010, leading some to believe the format may have plateaued.
4) And yes, as you pointed out, approximately 1 out of 20 downloads are infringing.

There are many reasons for a 10+ year decline in sales, including a significantly reduced need to repurchase for a new format (a process which buoyed CD sales for many years). But piracy is clearly another one.

You might want to broaden your knowledge beyond one single article written 3 years ago before proclaiming that piracy hasn't affected sales.


On a separate note, last I heard used books were around 15% of total sales. It's probably a higher percentage of education sales.

This one from 2010 confirms the trend of increasing profits despite increased piracy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...industry-facts

What other industries have reported increased profits during a global recession?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

But to me it's fairly clear that a good chunk of pirates are people who simply do not want to pay for digital content. There are numerous rationalizations for this -- "it's not like shoplifting" or "it's got DRM" or "the artist doesn't get paid anyway," but ultimately much of the time it comes down to "I don't wanna pay."

How would you explain this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4718249.stm

http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/01/boo...-drm-data.html

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

It doesn't. And the point that's overlooked again and again: of those who download King's entire oeuvre, how many would have bought the same at retail prices? Those who download "2500 Kindle ebooks", how many would have legally bought them if they hadn't been able to down them? Exactly.

I've never read anything by him, but I do have a couple of his paperbacks. I bought them second hand years ago for 10p each on a whim. I wonder how many billions of dollars he has lost because of this.

[Asawi]

Well. I can't really add much to this discussion, but still I made a xouple of reflexions reading the article:
Oh gee, If I wanted to get more eBooks now I know the exact phrase to look for.
Actually, even though I'm not really into this kind of thing I'm almost, but only almost, tempted to get the thing and see how many of those books I'd actually be interested in. I'm guessing a very low fraction...
But you know what, with my library providing good quality books that I can borrow for free, totally legal, I think I'll pass... For now...

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

After all, music has been available DRM-free and rather affordable for what, 2 years now? There are also countless free streaming options, ranging from Internet radio to Spotify to Pandora. Yet music piracy rates are still sky-high, and there are correlations between nations with lax IP enforcement and cratering music sales rates (note: this does not necessarily prove cause and effect).

Plus, this guy and/or his publisher -- Penguin -- seems to be doing about 75% of what many MR peoples demand. The ebook is out at the same time as the hardcover; at $4, not only is it very reasonably priced, but it's a fraction of the hardcover price ($19). It's even agency pricing and still $4. And yet people still pirated it, albeit in almost a drive-by fashion.

I see zero evidence that DRM is what's causing most of the piracy, especially in this case.

I buy a book. From Amazon. I pay $4 for it. And I can't read it because I don't read on my PC and I don't have a Kindle.

So, I go to the internet, find that same book, in mobi format. And I put it on my BBMini and start reading.

So, what do you think the average user, who runs by the sound of "hacking", will do?

About the MP3's. Too little, too late. People had found the illegal circuit. People had gotten used to the illegal circuit. And, personally, I still haven't found a location where I can buy my MP3's. Most shops, I'm not allowed (not US-based) and I refuse to use Itunes.