WTF do publishers think they're doing ?

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Then blame the authors. It is ENTIRELY their fault.

Author, agent or publisher, does not matter who you blame really. The problem remains.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Author, agent or publisher, does not matter who you blame really. The problem remains.

True, but the title of this thread, "WTF do publishers think they're doing?", is wrongly putting the blame on the publishers. Publishers aren't to blame for geographical restrictions.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by fidjit

Amazon UK - available in paperback and hardcover ( approx $10.42 and $23.00 au ) AND FINALLY.......Kindle version $17.99AU.

wow! A mere 5 $ drop from paper/ink/glue printed and physically distributed piece of physical material you own and can sell to a cheap digital download you're just licensed to. Common sense business, no doubt!

makes me want to scream "aaarrrr"

[ficbot]

[QUOTE=Lexi Revellian;1398367]What? Noooooo! Where would the publishing industry and readers be without us?
ANSWER: Nowhere. Without a paddle.[/QUOTE

Sorry Lexi, but HarryT is right. On this issue, it IS the fault of the authors. Not every author, of course, but we're speaking here of the general and not every possible exception. It doesn't mean anybody is anti-author.

And think about this- without the paying customer, where would the 'industry' be? Answer? Just as 'nowhere' as if the authors dropped out of the equation. Bottom line is, this problem needs fixing---for everyone's benefit.

[outlander78]

Two things are inevitable:
1. Prices are going to come down due to competition. Competition is global, and includes the zero-cost public domain.
2. The amount of junk is going to increase, as every literate net-connected person can write and publish.

What I think is probable:
1. Authors are going to eliminate the middle-men.

Until ereaders become mainstream (as MP3 players did), ebooks are a niche market. We are at the bleeding edge, and can expect high prices and screwy tactics, just like MP3s had in the beginning. As there are thousands of high-quality public-domain ebooks, I hope the improvements come faster than they did in the music industry.

[Lexi Revellian]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

No offense, but my reading is overwhelmingly the public domain stuff; the classics.

What genre do you write?

Tricky question - my books tend not to be all that genre specific. Remix is commercial fiction, bit of a whodunnit, bit of romance. The current one is commercial fiction, bit of sci fi (but not much).

It's really the publishing industry that loves to put books in pigeon holes.

[jbcohen]

Another problem that I see is that publishers still see electronic books as an after throught. Publishers typically target the hardbacks first becuase they cost more than the other formats do and thus they push this format more. Paperbacks are thought of as secondary becuase they cost a little less then the harbacks and thus are a lower priority then hardbacks. Electronic editions are not thought of since they have not really gone mainstream as yet and are typically thought as a third step in the lifespan of a book.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Another problem that I see is that publishers still see electronic books as an after throught. Publishers typically target the hardbacks first becuase they cost more than the other formats do and thus they push this format more. Paperbacks are thought of as secondary becuase they cost a little less then the harbacks and thus are a lower priority then hardbacks. Electronic editions are not thought of since they have not really gone mainstream as yet and are typically thought as a third step in the lifespan of a book.

....and yet I would have thought the vast majority of books now start their lives as electronic copy ....

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Lexi Revellian

Tricky question - my books tend not to be all that genre specific. Remix is commercial fiction, bit of a whodunnit, bit of romance. The current one is commercial fiction, bit of sci fi (but not much).

It's really the publishing industry that loves to put books in pigeon holes.

I looked at your website and sampled a bit. Not really my style. Good luck on your latest - "Unofficial Girl". Hope it does well for you.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

They want to maximize profits. Maybe they should price ebooks the same way? Hardcover prices for the first 30 days, then paperback pricing thereafter.

FYI, that is the plan. But it hews more closely to the existing schedules; e.g. higher prices for 6-12 months, then they lower the price when the paperback comes out.

I for one don't expect that cycle to shorten until paper sales drop to the point where putting out multiple paper formats ceases to make economic sense.

[Lexi Revellian]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

I looked at your website and sampled a bit. Not really my style. Good luck on your latest - "Unofficial Girl". Hope it does well for you.

Thanks for looking, tm. I have a good feeling about UG. I've written 68,000 words out of a projected 80,000.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Another problem that I see is that publishers still see electronic books as an after throught....

In the US, and especially with the big publishers, I don't think that's the case any more. They may not know fully how to deal with it, or how to change their business, but the majority of people in the industry expect ebooks to make up 50% of the market in just a few years.

Australia may be a bit behind, but they can see what's happening. It won't be long before they catch up to the US.

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Publishers typically target the hardbacks first becuase they cost more than the other formats do and thus they push this format more. Paperbacks are thought of as secondary becuase they cost a little less then the harbacks and thus are a lower priority then hardbacks.

If I am reading this properly, this is incorrect.

Hardcovers are higher priced than paperbacks, but barely cost any extra. They are what are known as "high margin" sales. A hardcover usually has a list price around $25 and a paperback of $10-12. However the cost difference between the two is most certainly not $13-$15 per copy.

What you are paying for is consumer demand. If you want the book the instant it comes out, you will pay a premium because the book is in high demand. After a year, demand is lower, so they issue a different paper edition and lower the price. Getting a nicer package is more icing on the cake. But the reality is you're paying because you bought it sooner.

Publishers have pretty much given up on delaying ebook editions on new books. It's no longer seen as a tertiary format, at least in the US.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

They want to maximize profits. Maybe they should price ebooks the same way? Hardcover prices for the first 30 days, then paperback pricing thereafter.

Everybody's posterchild for good ebook practices, Baen, does something along those lines: for high-profile likely bestsellers they offer the eARC as much as six months ahead of the print release at a nice premium. The practice has expanded so it obviously has not run into resistance.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

What is going on is a "perfect storm" of out-dated practices converging to dump on consumers....

Ugh, I hate that metaphor. It's so overused.

I can't quote your entire post, so here goes.

• Nationalism does apply in some places (especially India, and I presume Japan) but I don't think that's what is holding things up. It's just that sorting out all the digital rights is complex, expensive and involves lawyers.

• Middle-men have gotten squeezed for years, and are largely out of the ebook game. Publishers and retailers aren't trying to save them either.

• I concur it is much easier to deliver a digital good internationally compared to a physical good. That doesn't change the fact that a small publisher isn't going to have the resources to effectively distribute one of their books internationally.

As long as different territories have different cultures, languages, tax structures, business networks and consumer tastes, it's going to make sense to deal with local publishers and local retailers.

• It may not be in an author's best interests to sign over exclusive international digital rights. It certainly weakens their bargaining position, and puts them in a real bind if they are highly popular abroad but unpopular at home, since the "home" publisher may be less enthusiastic about the author.

• I don't think resolution is that far off. In the US, which has the most mature digital market so far, new books rarely have the kind of availability problems they did 18-24 months ago.


Sure, some publishers are hanging on to the "old" ways (which, really, are only 5-10 years old). But there are valid business reasons for utilizing regional expertise that extend beyond existing contractual obligations, and I for one expect that to continue. What will happen is the local publishers will get their act in gear as ebooks surge in popularity in those nations.

It's only going to seem like a "long time" to those whose patience is measured in nanoseconds rather than months.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

What is going on is a "perfect storm" of out-dated practices converging to dump on consumers:

1- Until recently, publishers were also printers and they could only profitably sell books where they were printed. Shipping costs made it unprofitable to print in one country and ship at another at the same price.

2- Nation-state governments have long seen their (dominant) national culture as a glue that holds the state together so they have seen fit to restrain imports of "cultural products" that might undercut local products and/or prop up the local providers through subsidies or restriction of competition.

3- As a result of the above: until recently, most national markets were isolated pockets free of external competitive pressures. Even if a book was available cheaper elsewhere the shipping cost, time delay, and import duties all were calibrated to protect the local sources, many of whom found a nice and tidy business in licensing external content for local production and sale. (Just as Apple charges a 30% tax for access to their locked-in customer base, the regional publishers charge content providers for access to the lock-in citizenry in their region.)

4- Over time, the system that evolved made good money for the middlemen, less money for the creators, and royally shafted the consumers in the smaller market. But there wasn't a viable alternative. Everybody was in the same boat.

Fast forward to the 21st century.
Global shipping now allows reasonably fast and cheap movement of goods.
Global communications allows fast and reliable online sale of said goods.
New digital goods technologies allow for massless content distribution over the open communications networks.
Suddenly, the various regional markets are no longer isolated.
Price comparisons are possible.
Consumer-level cross-continental shopping is routine.
And planet-wide marketting is not only viable but highly profitable.

Yet the old structures remain because the regional players (more often than not) still act as if they have a god-given right to exploit the customer base in their territories and, where print books are concerned, they really don't have the right to sell outside their territory. What started out as a necessity became an enforceable "gentlemen's agreement" not to "poach" on each other's territory and is now a deathgrip on fading monopolies.
In these early days of ebooks, too many regional publishers see themselves solely as importers and distributors of content and fail to see the greater profits to be made by exporting local content worldwide. They would rather protect the remnants of their 19th century monopolies than try to exploit the wide-open global market.
What the publishers are doing is hanging on to an outdated business model because they fear the new global market of the 21st.

It is unwise of them.
It is a losing game. It hurts their existing customers, it hurts the authors whose content they are pledged to promote and distribute, and it guarantees their own demise.
They can drag things out, especially in regions with protectionist nationalist regimes, and annoy and hurt their customers for a while longer, but eventually the nature of the technology will assert itself.
Over time, content producers will see there is more money to be made with unfettered global language rights contracts than with regional cotracts. Over time, global retail channels will be established (Amazon is already there and vilified for it but they are not going away. Kobo is building a federated counter through regional partnerships. Other players will emerge.).
Over time the existing regional contracts and the copyrights they enforce will expire and most if not all content will be licensed appropriately for a global marketplace.
Over time pricing will be rationalized, availability will be synchronized, and revenues will be maximized.
Customers all over will still be exploited, of course, but they won't be made to feel like afterthoughts and they'll all be exploited equally.
Nirvana it won't be.
But it won't be Gehenna either.
But its still a long ways off.

most insightful post I've ever read here.