Disappointed with K3 - Page 3

TheKindleWorm · 09-26-2010, 12:54 PM

I'd prefer to just dump my book collection onto the Kindle straight from the PC and organised into folders and sub-folders of my own choosing like I can with the Pocketbook 360.

But having said that, searching on the Kindle for a book is a doddle - it has an excellent search facility - and I haven't had any problems finding the exact book I want with nearly 600 stored on there. Being that you can just type in a key word and the Kindle will find that in the title or in the text of a book, how hard can it be to locate what you want?

bjones6416 · 09-26-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldRick

"Amazon made some choices to keep things simple."

I agree with the OP - the "organization" on the Kindle isn't "simple", it's simply crude and ugly. Even the Collections just add to the number of pages in the Home pages, because Collected titles still appear in the list.

Actually, if you make sure EVERY book is included in at least one collection, even if you just call it EldRick's Big Collection

, and then view your homepage by "Collections," the homepage won't show any titles at all. That's the main reason I keep my collections limited to just a few, i.e., fiction, nonfiction, and reading now, and keep my homepage view set to "Collections." It tidies up the homepage quite a bit.

DiapDealer · 09-26-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

I agree with the OP - the "organization" on the Kindle isn't "simple", it's simply crude and ugly.

I beg to differ -- it's the ultimate in simplicity. Put books on Kindle... view list of books on Kindle... sort list in a few simple ways... open book and read on Kindle. You are asking for it to be "more" complicated and intricate to meet your library management needs. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with that... it's just not a universal need/want of all Kindle users.

The minute the focus of the Kindle changes from "me read book" to "me manage library", is the minute I sell mine for another product.

jonahemery · 09-26-2010, 01:19 PM

I switched from Kobo to K3. I have to say the Kindle is the best e-book reader out there. At first I was confused about managing books... but I was just going into it thinking like how I would manage a computer. A Kindle is meant to be used without a computer. Because the books I access most recently are listed at the top, its not an issue. When I get to the place of 100's of books the search function will work well.

CaraM · 09-26-2010, 01:25 PM

I love my new Kindle. But then, I'm not real technical so it works for me. I do wish the covers came through though.

jlmwrite · 09-26-2010, 02:09 PM

Wow -- last night I thought I stood alone wanting better collection management and/or a bookshelf view. I'm very glad to hear that other folks share my view.

I still think the K3 hardware is amazing. It's just that the user interface is... um, less than optimal. Too bad some of the true techie Kindle users out there can't come up with some alternate programming! (Which, of course, the next minor software upgrade would completely obliterate.)

sbtx99 · 09-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Well, I'm in the camp that find the way Kindle handles collections to be simple and very easy to use. I don't need a big complicated folder setup. After reading a few tips on managing collections on the Kindle, I just set up a couple main collections, followed by a couple sub-collections, and then a few miscellaneous collections after that. By using symbols around my collection names < (),[],{} >, they're sorted in the order I want (main, sub, misc). The hardest part was the initial setup.

Now my home page, when sorted by title, just shows my nine collections followed by the Archived Items. And adding new books to the collections has been a breeze. Just switch to the "By Collections" view and it's easy to find and add the new books to the appropriate collection(s).

I tried using Calibre to manage collections on my Sony via tags but gave up on that. The one time I forgot to remove the publisher tags from an ebook it added 25 new collections to my Sony. Other times I forgot to add a tag to the ebook. I much prefer having a few simple categories that can be easily managed on the device.

ETA: Special thanks (& karma) to Daffy4U for posting the Kindle shortcut links in their signature, which is where I found the collection tips.

jlmwrite · 09-26-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbtx99

Well, I'm in the camp that find the way Kindle handles collections to be simple and very easy to use... ...By using symbols around my collection names < (),[],{} >, they're sorted in the order I want (main, sub, misc). The hardest part was the initial setup.

Ah, but this is my point; we shouldn't HAVE to resort to clumsy tricks and workarounds and other kludgy solutions to sort and manage our collections. Even DOS 1.0 used a directory/subdirectory structure. (And that idea came from unix; what decade is this, anyway?)

No disrespect to sbtx99, but why should Amazon make the initial setup "the hardest part" for you and and the rest of us?

Effect · 09-26-2010, 04:11 PM

Coming from a Kindle 1 to a Kindle 3 I have to say I'm okay with the current collections setup. It's not ideal of course. There area number of things I wish I could change about it. However at it's simplest it does it's job. I can create the list and have books be apart of multiple list. I was worried about being able to do that last one as I was creating them but seemed to work without an issue. Pressing right on the book shows it's cover and full title/author information along with other options for the book.

I would like to be able to create a collection within a collection so I can keep track of series better. This is going to be an annoyance for me in the future. Being able to lock a collection as well would be nice. I'd like certain things to be private (when it comes to certain books I might be reading) if someone wants to actually check out the device.

DiapDealer · 09-26-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

No disrespect to sbtx99, but why should Amazon make the initial setup "the hardest part" for you and and the rest of us?

The initial setup is only hard for the one's who have an existing large ebook library and insist on loading that entire library on the device immediately after they receive it. As popular as that type of user is here on MobileRead, I guarantee it represents a much, much smaller percentage of Kindle owners on the whole.

I for one, don't find it surprising that developers never saw a need to make it "easy" for users to load up 100's of books they had already read on a brand new device. The whole practice is kind of bizarre to me. But to each their own... I don't have to understand it.

el_brio · 09-26-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I would prefer the Amazon spend 100% of the R&D budget on the reading experience. I can appreciate the fact that many seem to enjoy:
-browsing through their hundreds of books.
-rearranging their library.
-cataloguing their library.
-creating their very own version of the dewey decimal system.
-staring lovingly at the covers of their books.
-dressing it up in a coat and hat and taking it for a walk.

But there are many of us who just enjoy using their Kindle to read a book.
One book.
One page at a time.
At home, in a chair.
Maybe one or two other books on there to choose from if I happen to finish the one I'm reading.

In that regard... the Kindle is perfect. I hope they stay focused on the meat & potatoes and keep the fluff to a minimum.

You nailed this one. I couldn't agree more. Unless you plan on getting stranded on a desert island there isn't a reason I can think of to have 500 books at a time on the thing.

sbtx99 · 09-26-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The initial setup is only hard for the one's who have an existing large ebook library and insist on loading that entire library on the device immediately after they receive it. As popular as that type of user is here on MobileRead, I guarantee it represents a much, much smaller percentage of Kindle owners on the whole.

Yes, this! I only meant the initial setup was the hardest part in the sense that I had downloaded 30 or 35 ebooks and needed to go thru them individually determine which collection(s) an ebook should go into. Despite that, it was still a much easier exercise to create the collections on my Kindle than it was to go thru the effort of loading that many books into Calibre, assign tags to each individual ebook, and send them to my Sony reader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlmwrite

Ah, but this is my point; we shouldn't HAVE to resort to clumsy tricks and workarounds and other kludgy solutions to sort and manage our collections. Even DOS 1.0 used a directory/subdirectory structure. (And that idea came from unix; what decade is this, anyway?)

No disrespect to sbtx99, but why should Amazon make the initial setup "the hardest part" for you and and the rest of us?

And no disrespect to jlmwrite, but the "clunky" solution in Kindle at least gives me a flat view of ALL my collections at a glance. Who wants to traverse up and down a complicated directory/subdirectory structure on a device that doesn't have a touchscreen or a mouse attached to make it easier for moving around? I'd rather create a few simple collections that can be seen at a glance, and not waste time moving up and down a tree like structure searching for a particular book.

ETA: Of course, my frame of reference is in comparison to creating collections for my Sony prs-300 (an apples-to-apples comparison). Not comparing it to creating folders on my laptop or smartphone with pointing devices & touchscreens.

mdovell · 09-26-2010, 07:38 PM

I think it might be good to talk about a distinction between uses of the kindle.

I have a fair amount of modern (say within the past 5 years) books

But I also have a fair amount of reference. I found some diy stuff and some medical stuff

O I really plan to look at the reference often? Not really...But I rather have that then the volumes and volumes of books for it.

When mp3 players came out 12 years ago many people assumed that it was JUST music. To a degree a majority of it is...but it's also audio books and podcasts.

Likewise with kindle people have magazines, newspapers, blogs etc. The books that I have (physically) long term seem to have been reference books. Gradually I would like to phase out my physical library.

cvkemp · 09-26-2010, 07:43 PM

I love my kindle and I have around 100 books on it and I have to say that is way too many. I am rethinking my organization of my kindle. I always have my netbook with me. And it has my full library organized by calibre. So why do I have to have so many books on my kindle.
I have a collection that is (Now Reading) and it normally has 5 or 6 books in it. I also have a collection (Tech) that has reference material. That is really all I need. So I can remove a book when I finish it and add the next one I am going to start reading.
That is the way I am heading.

jlmwrite · 09-26-2010, 08:02 PM

I don't spend any appreciable amount of time browsing, rearranging, cataloguing, or creating a new dewey decimal system. I expect my software to do all of that for me! (Admission: I did spend some time initially updating metadata, including cover art but calibre made that a no-brainer.) With about 600 e-books (give or take the last 20 or so I purchased after getting my K3 earlier this week), I'm not gonna spend a lot of time renaming everything with obscure symbols so they'll sort properly.

When I've bought or otherwise acquired a dozen new books at a time, it's tough to decide what to read next. A bookshelf view would make my life SO much easier. Cover art thumbnails would make that even better. I'm glad the plain-jane menu works for some folks, but it makes me sad that such a great device has so few options. You know, when I go to B&N or to Borders to kill a couple of hours, I browse rather randomly instead of starting in the "A"s and going down the rows. Heck, the tables piled with the latest fiction are an adventure for me.

How about this compromise: give us, the end user, the option to have all the whizz-bang eye candy with folders and other good stuff or the ability to choose a plain menu with a flat directory structure.

09-26-2010, 02:32 PM	#37
sbtx99 Zealot Posts: 137 Karma: 1826 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Device: Kindle 3 Wifi; Red PRS-650; iPod Touch; Android phone	Well, I'm in the camp that find the way Kindle handles collections to be simple and very easy to use. I don't need a big complicated folder setup. After reading a few tips on managing collections on the Kindle, I just set up a couple main collections, followed by a couple sub-collections, and then a few miscellaneous collections after that. By using symbols around my collection names < (),[],{} >, they're sorted in the order I want (main, sub, misc). The hardest part was the initial setup. Now my home page, when sorted by title, just shows my nine collections followed by the Archived Items. And adding new books to the collections has been a breeze. Just switch to the "By Collections" view and it's easy to find and add the new books to the appropriate collection(s). I tried using Calibre to manage collections on my Sony via tags but gave up on that. The one time I forgot to remove the publisher tags from an ebook it added 25 new collections to my Sony. Other times I forgot to add a tag to the ebook. I much prefer having a few simple categories that can be easily managed on the device. ETA: Special thanks (& karma) to Daffy4U for posting the Kindle shortcut links in their signature, which is where I found the collection tips. Last edited by sbtx99; 09-26-2010 at 02:53 PM. Reason: adding thanks

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09-26-2010, 12:54 PM	#31
TheKindleWorm Guru Posts: 860 Karma: 177868 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: East Anglia UK Device: Kindle 3G, iPhone 3G, iPod 4G, PB 360, Sony 600 sold, Kindle 2i sold	I'd prefer to just dump my book collection onto the Kindle straight from the PC and organised into folders and sub-folders of my own choosing like I can with the Pocketbook 360. But having said that, searching on the Kindle for a book is a doddle - it has an excellent search facility - and I haven't had any problems finding the exact book I want with nearly 600 stored on there. Being that you can just type in a key word and the Kindle will find that in the title or in the text of a book, how hard can it be to locate what you want?

09-26-2010, 01:19 PM	#34
jonahemery Member Posts: 12 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Fredericton, NB Device: Kindle 3G	I switched from Kobo to K3. I have to say the Kindle is the best e-book reader out there. At first I was confused about managing books... but I was just going into it thinking like how I would manage a computer. A Kindle is meant to be used without a computer. Because the books I access most recently are listed at the top, its not an issue. When I get to the place of 100's of books the search function will work well.

09-26-2010, 01:25 PM	#35
CaraM Guru Posts: 924 Karma: 1000000 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: Kindle	I love my new Kindle. But then, I'm not real technical so it works for me. I do wish the covers came through though.

09-26-2010, 02:09 PM	#36
jlmwrite Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 13398 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Golden, Colorado Device: Samsung Tab S8.4, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge	Wow -- last night I thought I stood alone wanting better collection management and/or a bookshelf view. I'm very glad to hear that other folks share my view. I still think the K3 hardware is amazing. It's just that the user interface is... um, less than optimal. Too bad some of the true techie Kindle users out there can't come up with some alternate programming! (Which, of course, the next minor software upgrade would completely obliterate.)

09-26-2010, 04:11 PM	#39
Effect Member Posts: 21 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Pa, USA Device: Kindle 1 and Kindle 3	Coming from a Kindle 1 to a Kindle 3 I have to say I'm okay with the current collections setup. It's not ideal of course. There area number of things I wish I could change about it. However at it's simplest it does it's job. I can create the list and have books be apart of multiple list. I was worried about being able to do that last one as I was creating them but seemed to work without an issue. Pressing right on the book shows it's cover and full title/author information along with other options for the book. I would like to be able to create a collection within a collection so I can keep track of series better. This is going to be an annoyance for me in the future. Being able to lock a collection as well would be nice. I'd like certain things to be private (when it comes to certain books I might be reading) if someone wants to actually check out the device.

09-26-2010, 07:38 PM	#43
mdovell Zealot Posts: 148 Karma: 3168 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: Kindle DX	I think it might be good to talk about a distinction between uses of the kindle. I have a fair amount of modern (say within the past 5 years) books But I also have a fair amount of reference. I found some diy stuff and some medical stuff O I really plan to look at the reference often? Not really...But I rather have that then the volumes and volumes of books for it. When mp3 players came out 12 years ago many people assumed that it was JUST music. To a degree a majority of it is...but it's also audio books and podcasts. Likewise with kindle people have magazines, newspapers, blogs etc. The books that I have (physically) long term seem to have been reference books. Gradually I would like to phase out my physical library.

09-26-2010, 07:43 PM	#44
cvkemp Loving life Posts: 1,430 Karma: 7991496 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hot Springs Village, Arkansas Device: PaperWhite 6 SE, Fire HD8	I love my kindle and I have around 100 books on it and I have to say that is way too many. I am rethinking my organization of my kindle. I always have my netbook with me. And it has my full library organized by calibre. So why do I have to have so many books on my kindle. I have a collection that is (Now Reading) and it normally has 5 or 6 books in it. I also have a collection (Tech) that has reference material. That is really all I need. So I can remove a book when I finish it and add the next one I am going to start reading. That is the way I am heading.

09-26-2010, 08:02 PM	#45
jlmwrite Zealot Posts: 143 Karma: 13398 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Golden, Colorado Device: Samsung Tab S8.4, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge	I don't spend any appreciable amount of time browsing, rearranging, cataloguing, or creating a new dewey decimal system. I expect my software to do all of that for me! (Admission: I did spend some time initially updating metadata, including cover art but calibre made that a no-brainer.) With about 600 e-books (give or take the last 20 or so I purchased after getting my K3 earlier this week), I'm not gonna spend a lot of time renaming everything with obscure symbols so they'll sort properly. When I've bought or otherwise acquired a dozen new books at a time, it's tough to decide what to read next. A bookshelf view would make my life SO much easier. Cover art thumbnails would make that even better. I'm glad the plain-jane menu works for some folks, but it makes me sad that such a great device has so few options. You know, when I go to B&N or to Borders to kill a couple of hours, I browse rather randomly instead of starting in the "A"s and going down the rows. Heck, the tables piled with the latest fiction are an adventure for me. How about this compromise: give us, the end user, the option to have all the whizz-bang eye candy with folders and other good stuff or the ability to choose a plain menu with a flat directory structure.

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