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04-23-2017, 12:08 PM | #31 | |
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04-23-2017, 12:19 PM | #32 | |
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No one in this thread has said that authors shouldn't be paid for their work. That is an absolute strawman you are throwing out. But if they want to be paid, they sure better make it available! I believe in paying authors more than most. There are a number of books where I purchased the hardback, paperback, ebook and audiobook. I want my favorite authors to make lots of money and keep writing. I'm selfish, I want my fix! But once again, it's a social bargain, not a property right. |
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04-23-2017, 12:34 PM | #33 | |
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Here is one of many possible examples of Pulitzer Prize winning books that are surely in the 25 million, and now are expensive and impossible to obtain if you need an eBook (for example, because you can only read large print): https://www.amazon.com/Grover-Clevel.../dp/B0006AO0FA |
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04-23-2017, 12:45 PM | #34 | |
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04-23-2017, 01:19 PM | #35 |
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Nobody's suggest that the public pay for something to be guarded. Simply that the law provides a mechanism to punish those who take it without the owner's permission, just as is the case with physical property. It's your responsibility to protect your own property, but there's a legal mechanism to punish those who violate your protection and take it anyway.
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04-23-2017, 01:29 PM | #36 | |
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Once again, people shouting at each other from their distant mountaintops. |
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04-23-2017, 04:46 PM | #37 | |
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In general, most parties agree that orphaned works are a major issue with regards to copyright law. In the US, there have been several proposals for putting in a mechanism for a good faith search, followed by a method of putting a reasonable share of the revenue into a trust for any copyright holder who may surface in the future. So far, they haven't gone anywhere. I guess there are some significant players who like the status quo and see no reason to compromise. I suspect that this will change when certain political figures in the US retire or the filibuster is finally ended. Last edited by pwalker8; 04-23-2017 at 05:06 PM. |
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04-23-2017, 04:59 PM | #38 | |
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For the most part, I think your attempt to draw a parallel between real property and copyright doesn't work. Once I sell a copy of a book, there is no practical protection that an author can take to keep it from being copied again. It's very much different than locking the door on my house or car. The only option that an author has is an after the fact civil lawsuit which may or may not be successful. Just as important, it a very hard sell to a jury. That's why one generally only sees such lawsuits against someone making money off the copyright violation, usually significant money. Otherwise, the cost of the suit in lawyer fees ends up more than you can recover, even if you win. |
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04-23-2017, 05:42 PM | #39 | |
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But my dear, that is half the fun of collecting is finding a rare gem. |
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04-23-2017, 05:49 PM | #40 | |
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And my response was in response to the one that said if I made my work unavailable he should be able to copy it and make sure it was available to the public. So yes, my property my problem but the law allows me some recourse. |
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04-23-2017, 05:54 PM | #41 | |
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If you make a copy and sell it, then yes the author or whoever owns the copyright does have recourse. |
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04-23-2017, 08:12 PM | #42 |
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Oddly enough, I remember reading all the Arthur H. Landis books as a youth and had no idea he was dead.
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04-23-2017, 08:28 PM | #43 | |
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Of course, there also are a lot of well-reviewed out of print fiction titles among those 25 million books. But, at least with fiction, a few of the best titles, for each year, are eBooks. When the post-1922 the prize winner is fiction, it is usually in print, and, except for the least known authors, is also an eBook. Here are lesser-known fiction Pulitzer Prize fiction examples: https://www.amazon.com/Honey-Horn-No...ey+in+the+horn https://www.amazon.com/Early-Autumn-...=UTF8&qid=&sr= What I can't get, except via interlibrary loan, is most of the prize-winning non-fiction. My well-known non-fiction example author, Alan Nevins, has a few titles still in print, such as this next one, so his estate must be reachable: https://www.amazon.com/Fr%C3%A9mont-...2991352&sr=1-8 As for copyright renewal, as alluded to in the OP article, verifying that copyright was renewed often might not be that hard, but being absolutely certain a title was NOT renewed is difficult due to possibilities such as title variations. I'm guessing this is why is is often claimed that most books, back when renewal was needed, didn't get renewed, and yet you won't see these titles at www.gutenberg.org, or in the Patricia Clark Library. Someone who knows more can correct me, but I'm thinking that the risk of having to pay the litigation cost and fine for even a single US 1923-1963 title, for which the renewal was accidentally missed, is so high that no one can risk it. In theory, someone could start a business offering copyright title insurance for books published in the US 1923-1963, comparable to the title insurance against missed liens purchased when buying a home. In practice, since no one is selling that insurance, it must be financially infeasible. So, as explained in the OP link, Google proposed to compensate the authors and estates regardless of renewal. And, just to remind people, Google would have allowed authors and estates to charge, for the eBooks, whatever they wanted up to $29.99, of which the rights-holder would get $18.89 (63 percent). It is only the titles where no rights-holder came forward (or where the rights holder was content with the Google recommendation) where Google would set the price, 63 percent of which would go to the Books Rights Registry. This all seems to me a little like the accepted ASCAP music royalty scheme. Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 04-23-2017 at 08:34 PM. |
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04-24-2017, 05:46 AM | #44 | |
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For anyone else, if you wanted to set up a business based on copying copyrighted works then you'd need to arrange licenses in advance. Google just went ahead and did it. Then they acted as if not showing more than a snippet at a time was not a copyright violation, which may be true, except that the copy they had made in order to do that was unauthorised. So even if they scanned it and never showed it to anyone it was an unauthorised copy. The fact that this was ruled to be fair use, as if Google were you or I making copies for personal use, well it doesn't seem to me what fair use was intended for. I concede that the end result would have been a good thing but it's the sense that Google feels that because of that (or because they can afford armies of lawyers) the rules don't really apply to them, it's that that annoys me. |
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04-24-2017, 09:09 AM | #45 | |
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It really doesn't have anything to do with Google having a lot of money and lawyers, but rather that they were on pretty firm legal footing in doing so. Where they ran into trouble is when they started talking about selling the digitized books. That does require licensing with the copyright holders. There is actually a lot of case law with regards to copyright and fair use. Fair use is for the most part common law (i.e. judgical rather than legislative), though it was finally included in the copyright act from the mid 70's. One of the issues here is that some want everything to be black or white, while in reality, it's simply various shades of grey. |
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