E-Book Piracy: The Publishing Industry's Next Epic Saga?

[Kirtai]

Originally Posted by sircastor

I think what he was saying is that locks help honest people avoid temptation. We're all susceptible to doing things we shouldn't, but it's easier to avoid the temptation if there's some other thing dissuading us.

I'm aware what he meant but I still think it's a silly phrase, not to mention insulting to the genuinely honest people.

Originally Posted by sircastor

To be fair, I think it's much rarer that a lock keeps you out of your own house

That happened to a friend of mine a couple weeks ago. The locksmith came and opened the new reinforced "high security" door in about 10 seconds with only a cordless drill and a screwdriver. With almost no noise at that.

Drawing an analogy to DRM is left as an exercise for the reader

[Krystian Galaj]

Originally Posted by sircastor

I think what he was saying is that locks help honest people avoid temptation. We're all susceptible to doing things we shouldn't, but it's easier to avoid the temptation if there's some other thing dissuading us.

I hope the publishers will one day understand that now it's the legal books one has to jump through loops to get, and the darknet ones can be downloaded and ready to read in a minute.

[RWJ]

Originally Posted by Krystian Galaj

I hope the publishers will one day understand that now it's the legal books one has to jump through loops to get, and the darknet ones can be downloaded and ready to read in a minute.

I bought a book I was much anticipating from Fictionwise. It was only available in a format that requires a bit of hassle, in order for me to read it on my 505. I subsequently stumbled across the same book on darknet, that I could transfer immediately. Guess which one I'm currently reading? I firmly believe in respecting copyright (as a writer I ought to) but equally firmly believe that I need to own, in a meaningful sense, the books I purchase. I doubt most people would hesitate, though, given the choice between paying for something that's a hassle to make readable, versus instantly readable and free.

[neilmarr]

If a book is pirated and is then made available for free download, what's in it for the pirate, I wonder. Doesn't seem particularly enterprising for those flying the Jolly Roger to plunder publishers and then give away their treasure chests. Most unpiratical of them. The Pirates Union would no doubt go so far as to call it unprofessional and downright unethical. Neil

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

If a book is pirated and is then made available for free download, what's in it for the pirate, I wonder. Doesn't seem particularly enterprising for those flying the Jolly Roger to plunder publishers and then give away their treasure chests. Most unpiratical of them. The Pirates Union would no doubt go so far as to call it unprofessional and downright unethical. Neil

It's the thrill, the challenge, the sticking it to the man, the 'you're not the boss of me' drive. Nothing to do with money.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by kennyc

It's the thrill, the challenge, the sticking it to the man, the 'you're not the boss of me' drive. Nothing to do with money.

I do not believe at all that this is the reason.

Reasons I have heard from people is giving back (other made somethin available and I give back by making something else available) or that they think that it is better for thing to be available easily. In some parts of the sub culture it is also a "competition". You get higher status the more you make available. The competition people seems to hang out on closed hubs or other non-public places.

[jasonkchapman]

Originally Posted by tompe

I do not believe at all that this is the reason.

Reasons I have heard from people is giving back (other made somethin available and I give back by making something else available) or that they think that it is better for thing to be available easily. In some parts of the sub culture it is also a "competition". You get higher status the more you make available. The competition people seems to hang out on closed hubs or other non-public places.

There is no single reason. There are nearly as many reasons out there as there are participants. Some folks are honest about their reasons. Others bury them under shifting layers of rationalization. It's not, by any means, a monolithic culture. That's why there is no way to "solve" piracy. No solution will ever satisfy every variation on the theme. Even freely-available material ends up on the darknet so that folks can get it without "supporting the evil corporations" that are showing ads on the legitimate site.

[DawnFalcon]

Or people just use an ad-blocker, which arguably in that situation is of equal ethical want, no?

[spideog]

Originally Posted by sircastor

I think what he was saying is that locks help honest people avoid temptation. We're all susceptible to doing things we shouldn't, but it's easier to avoid the temptation if there's some other thing dissuading us.

This always comes down an equation of want vs. consequences. The consequences may be expenditure of time, money, sacrifice of morals, physical danger, prison, etc. I hate to be callous about it, but most people, even the honest ones, have a breaking point. Locks on doors help people avoid that breaking point. DRM helps some people avoid breaking the law. To be fair, I think it's much rarer that a lock keeps you out of your own house

DRM is not what helps honest people avoid breaking the law, it's the thought of breaking the law and potential consequences of being caught doing so doing so that does that.

What DRM does do is limit what those honest people can then do with the products that they have legitimately bought. Or the other result of putting DRM on things is it makes honest people have to resort to other means that they would otherwise not have considered in order to obtain the product they want in a form that they want and then do with it what they want.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by spideog

DRM is not what helps honest people avoid breaking the law, it's the thought of breaking the law and potential consequences of being caught doing so doing so that does that.

What DRM does do is limit what those honest people can then do with the products that they have legitimately bought. Or the other result of putting DRM on things is it makes honest people have to resort to other means that they would otherwise not have considered in order to obtain the product they want in a form that they want and then do with it what they want.

Yes, but. Putting a lock on the door increases the possibility of getting caught and deters those you would not make the effort.

I put an NRA sticker on my window not to attract those who would steal my guns but so they know they are dead meat if they attempt it.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Yes, but. Putting a lock on the door increases the possibility of getting caught and deters those you would not make the effort.

Again, though, that is an incorrect comparison. The correct comparison is giving you a specific key which only you can use to open your own door, and only if nobody else is within three meters.

And NRA sticker? Yea, unsurprising.

[spideog]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Yes, but. Putting a lock on the door increases the possibility of getting caught and deters those you would not make the effort.

I put an NRA sticker on my window not to attract those who would steal my guns but so they know they are dead meat if they attempt it.

A lock on your door is only a minor inconvenience to someone who wants to gain entry, and they will probably just stick a brick through a back window where they will not be seen anyway and any extra delay the lock may cause them is irrelevant.

DRM does not alert the authorities when it has been broken, which your house may well do if someone breaks in and you have the alarm on. It does not prevent dishonest people from doing what they wish, as they will most likely have sourced the product un-DRM'ed from somewhere else anyway. All it does is prevent the honest people who have spent their money to buy something from what they can do with what they have bought, and make them criminals if they then break the DRM to be able to then do what they want.

DRM is of no consequence to people who pirate as they will have no need to encounter it. It will turn otherwise honest people into pirates though once they get sufficiently annoyed with the limitations that it places on them.

[spideog]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Again, though, that is an incorrect comparison. The correct comparison is giving you a specific key which only you can use to open your own door, and only if nobody else is within three meters.

Or you have just bought your new house and are handed the keys, but those keys will only allow you access to the front door of you house on Wednesdays, every other day the door will remain locked.

[kennyc]

He we go, round 10.

Please read through the 30 previous pages of postings spideog

[DawnFalcon]

Well yes, that does rather beg the question why you're still using the wrong comparison, honestly...

Once again, DRM is one tool, and it's been badly abused to the point where there is (rightly, afaik, because of the nature of the abuse) little consumer tolerance for it. But don't confuse it with the entire toolbox.