Concerns About Sony's Religious Intolerance

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by tompe

It is hard to measure but as you saw it had been showed that people with strong opinions will not change them. And personally I do not get it how you can get a sincere belief just because your life is threatened.

Also there has been a lot of claims about famous atheists changing there ind at death bead but when you look at the claims in more detail you almost always find that they are wrong.



Why? umm.......because you need some type of belief to base your own moral compass on?



The brain stop functioning and the body decomposes. What do non-atheists believe happens when an insect dies?

So there is no difference between humans and insects?

I am in so over my head here.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

So there is no difference between humans and insects?

I am in so over my head here.

Well, I do not see what difference there are that is relevant to the question about what happens after death.

I am scared of people basing their moral compass on religion. I do not want to be near them when they loose there faith.

You can base your moral compass on a lot of things. Social contracts. Laws. Upbringing. Imitation. Moral reasoning. The structures in the brain. And so on.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by msmith

....
I don't need to be financially supporting intolerance and disrespect of my beliefs....

LOL, so the next time I end up in some flea-bag chain motel and find a Bible in the nightstand drawer, I should run to complain that the chain is disrespectful and offensive to reason and knowledge?! Come to think of it, this actually makes some sense, and can be reasonably defended, as opposed to the initial post....

As to the assertion that "90% of Americans believe in God," it's worth noting that the densest and likely most religious of them (just about 20%,) also believe that the Sun rotates around the Earth (http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/duncan/17535/)

And if I am to set my moral compass in accordance with the Bible, perhaps I should follow the Lord's great example, and smite the clerk at the reason- and science-offending, Bible-thumping motel chain I mentioned above. Or just set the motel ablaze, with all of its inhabitants, ala Sodom. Or, kill all the male employees and guests, as well as all women who are not virgins, and keep the virgin ones for myself (see, for instance, Numbers 31:18)

With all these moral pointers I can make use of from the Bible, I don't know where to begin. Hmm, now this is a righteous moral dilemma

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

But, when you find yourself on your deathbed, or in imminent danger of losing your life, or a loved ones life, will you be able to keep yourselves from crying out to a God, or any diety/higher power to be spared? Will your agnostic/athiestic beliefs hold up?

Thats what it all boils down to folks, a sense of comfort derived from belief in whatever "higher power" you choose to believe in.

With the greatest respect, though, the fact that it comforts you to believe that a "higher power" is looking after you does not make it true.

Did God create man, or did man create God? Personally, I am convinced that it's the latter.

[pdurrant]

If I believe in anything, it's that the processes of the universe aren't random. That is to say, I believe it is possible to come up with models of the behaviour of parts of the universe, and that those models won't become invalid overnight for no reason.

But even there, I don't think it's the same sort of belief that you mean.

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Again, if you don't believe in something, anything, what rock anchors your life?

[Hvatum]

meh, somewhat poor choice I'd say.

Richard Dawkins is really over-hyped anyway. I'm an atheist but I think he's a dis-service and makes Atheists look like a bunch of intolerant whiners. What attracted me to Atheism was the feeling that they were easy going but now everyone, including atheists, is getting up in arms and offended about this or that. I've lost any inspiration atheism used to give me. That's all I have to say on the matter as I think it's an utter waste of time, unless you enjoy arguing of course.

I will say though, this doesn't have anything to do with free speach whatsoever. Free speech is a right regulated by the government. The only way this would have anything to do with free speech is if Sony were the primary distrubtor of reading material and removal of Dawkins book would mean many people would have no access to it... Obviously not the case. Its a decision made by the free market and you can choose to patronize or not patronize Sony. Likewise, Sony can put whatever books they like on the reader. That's the free market. The OP has every right to complain or be offended, that's fine, sony removing the book because of his offense also wouldn't have anything to do w/ free speech.

I'm tired of people bringing up free speech in cases that have naught to do with it, like forum moderation being a violation of free speech - ugh. Or Naomi Wolfe not getting enough airtime on major networks and saying her free speech is being violated. Too many seem to have a fantasy that they're idealistic rebels fighting against some sort of fascist oppression. We need to get over ourselves. Anyway, that's my rant - it felt good.

[jbjb]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Thats IT?? Decomposition? Then why even bother? Why do good, or be good? What difference does anything make?
AACCCKKKKKKKKkkkkkk........dammit, I got roped in.

So the only reason you try to be good is to please some imaginary god? Not for its own sake?

That's very sad.

/JB

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

So there is no difference between humans and insects?

Life on earth couldn't survive without insects - it could get along just fine without us.
So insects are more important than humans .

[BobLenx]

I have had my 505 for well over a year now. The first thing I did when I got it was to delete everything that came preloaded - didn't need it didn't want it.

I am not religious; however, I would not have been even remotely offended if my 505 had arrived pre-loaded with the Bible or the Koran or the Bagavhad Gita - I could have deleted it. I am not offended when I rent a motel room and there is a Bible in the vanity drawer - I don't have to read it. I am not offended when the TV networks put on religious movies at Christmas and Easter - I don't have to watch it.

The book referenced was a best seller which is why it was there. Sony isn't trying to force anything on you - they have no religious agenda - they just want you to spend money on their "stuff" so they can make a profit - or in the current economy, simply avoid going out of business.

[Sonist]

Actually, I am about a third into The God Delusion, and I find it perfectly well-reasoned. Dawkins' arguments hardly make anyone look like a "bunch of intolerant whiners," not any more, than say those who dismiss the lunacy of a 7,000-year old Universe, based on current scientific knowledge, are a "bunch of intolerant whiners."

But, here is a nubie question:

I'd like to get the ebook version of The God Delusion as well. It is available from the Sony Store, but want to load it on my Iliad.

I've never bought an ebook from the Sony Store, and am wondering if my assumption that I can purchase the ebook, then strip the DRM and load it on my Iliad (as prc maybe,) is correct?

If the above is possible, is the formatting retained?

[jj2me]

Just got my brand new PRS-505 five days ago at a Sony Style store. Love it. (Oops, wrong thread.)

No God Delusion pre-loaded! No need for further concerns/complaints!

And besides, the original poster said his/her God Delusion was only an excerpt. Those things are pure business promos to get you to buy. Probably like the crapware included on a new PC: publishers paying Sony to include them. Sony no more endorses these books or their authors than HP recommends AOL, Snapfish, and Vonage.

[lilac_jive]

Originally Posted by jj2me

Just got my brand new PRS-505 five days ago at a Sony Style store. Love it. (Oops, wrong thread.)

No God Delusion pre-loaded! No need for further concerns/complaints!

And besides, the original poster said his/her God Delusion was only an excerpt. Those things are pure business promos to get you to buy. Probably like the crapware included on a new PC: publishers paying Sony to include them. Sony no more endorses these books or their authors than HP recommends AOL, Snapfish, and Vonage.

Congrats! They are always changing the excerpts, so it's not a suprise you didn't get it. I didn't either (but this was a year ago).

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Thats IT?? Decomposition? Then why even bother? Why do good, or be good? What difference does anything make?

<atheistic religious tangent>
If life ends at death--truly ends, no afterlife, no reincarnation, no ghosts, no join-the-eternal-in-bliss-of-nirvana--then this life is all we have.

That makes it PRECIOUS.

All the meaning, justice, goodness in the universe is what we create. That makes us important--we are the ones who perceive order, who prefer nurturing over destruction, who have invented and sustained love for thousands of years.

It means every moment of our lives is an irreplaceable, unrepeatable blip in the universe; we become the candles in the darkness. We are good, moral, kind, generous people by choice, not by threat; all the goodness in the world (stories medicine technology tenderness love) are to our credit; all the evil, too, is ours--and that we strive to overcome it, without purpose or reason other than it is repugnant to us--is also to our credit.

If nobody's keeping score, all that matters is how you play the game. Children know this... they make games like "tag," with limited rules and no winners, no losers, just a way for people to enjoy activities together.

And it says something, that we as a species admire those who play the game of life with joy, intelligence, honor and beauty. It says more if we admire these things out of choice, than if we admire them because some huge cosmic entity has declared we must, or we should.

If we are unique and alone in the universe (which is the case without an afterlife, no matter how overpopulated the universe happens to be), then it's our destiny to create our own meanings for life. It means our achievements are founded on self-discipline, the kind we can be most proud of. It also means our failures are our own, and it's up to us to improve ourselves. It's a heavy responsibility--with nobody to enforce it but each other.

And we have performed miracles. And it's a great insult to our miracle-workers, to blithely move the credit for their efforts to some remote, unspeaking entity who can't even be bothered to indicate his existence clearly. (We have also performed atrocities. And it's a travesty to fail to assign blame for those on the people who've committed them, to decide that our mistakes belong to some grand evil spirit. Or to claim that our nature is inherently vile, and our atrocities are "natural" while our glories belong to someone else.)

</tangent>
Or was that </rant>?

[slayda]

DG, of course we aren't all ants running around with no purpose. Some of us are uncles running around with no purpose.

And the reason you won't find atheist in a foxhole is they're scared of the foxes who may be rabid.

And atheists do believe in something. It's just that the something they believe in is ... well nothing giving meaning to the question, "Is Nothing sacred?"

The main difference between the theists and atheists is that, in general, the theists have some "holy" book that describes what they believe, even though many of the believers haven't even read that book. The poor atheists don't have that sort of book they can point to in order to show someone what they believe.

Personally when I die I want to just be dead. I do not want to go somewhere else and do it all over again, definitely not forever. That would be "ungodly" boring, weel at least eventually it would (for me).

I used to work with two "rabid" fanatical christians. I got to the point where I told people that there was no heaven and hell. It was all the same place and I would live in a house between those two. They'd be in heaven but I'd be in hell.

I guess I'm somehwat like HortNCuddleAm. I would be pleased to have an oak tree planted on my grave some my constituant parts would be used to help it grow. (My luck though, it'd just die.) So maybe the best idea is "solent green".

[jj2me]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

Congrats!

I have many people to thank for their help in my PRS-700 vs. -505 decision, but a recent reply post from you is what put me over the top for the 505. Thanks.