Amazon vs Hachette

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by tompe

Actually they did not sell the ebook but seemed to change there mind after complaints.

No. They refused to accept pre-orders for the ebook. Once the release date arrived, you could buy it. Complaints had nothing to do with it. Hachette titles are available to be purchased from Amazon. Just no pre-orders (ebook or physical) and the physical books may experience shipping delays once the book is released and available for purchase.

[jgaiser]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

No. They refused to accept pre-orders for the ebook. Once the release date arrived, you could buy it. Complaints had nothing to do with it. Hachette titles are available to be purchased from Amazon. Just no pre-orders (ebook or physical) and the physical books may experience shipping delays once the book is released and available for purchase.

So much complaining... So few facts...

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

So much complaining... So few facts...

I know, right?

I guess "complaints from fans made the evil empire cave and change their tune about selling it" sounds better than "the release date arrived so now you can buy it ... just like we said you'd be able to."

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

So much complaining... So few facts...

Spend a half hour on www.amazon.com, looking at Hachette products by the prominent author of your choice, jotting down notes, and comparing to works by a comparable author of another publisher (Big 5, or Thomas & Mercer), and to kobo.com. Then, if you have time, look for the same books at search.overdrive.com. You will come out with loads of facts. The great thing about a thread like this is that everyone can be their own news reporter.

Originally Posted by tompe

Actually they did not sell the ebook but seemed to change there mind after complaints.

Could be. But Amazon is still selling many Hachette paperbacks at list price. Wouldn't they also get complaints about that?

Reading news stories and looking at www.amazon.com pricing, one sees that Amazon is still often pricing in a way that discourages Hachette purchases.

Amazon is a data-driven company. If their metrics show people getting to Hachette pages and promptly going off the reservation, adjustments are being made. If metrics show customers looking at a Hachette book and then making another Amazon purchase, the unusual price or shipment policy stays.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I fear this will have a detrimental effect on the overall quality of yogurt.

You aren't serious here, but maybe you should be.

To my taste buds, store-brand yogurt is fine. Since I am fairly confident that yogurt quality will remain acceptable, my interests there boil down to freshness and price. So if I read that WalMart put the squeeze on Yoplait, making unusual stocking and pricing decision that drove business to other brands, I wouldn't post about it negatively. It would be a shame when Yoplait employees lose their jobs. But there still are people in my country who go hungry, so cheaper yogurt would be, on balance, a moral good.

However, books are not yogurt.

Even though Hachette isn't my favorite brand of book, I prefer it to the Amazon Publishing brand, and I think I also would prefer today's Hachette to some future Amazonized Hachette that is less able to pay advances and editors.

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

Harry, did you realize that, despite what was written in #377, Amazon is, among other things, a conventional publisher? This is separate from Kindle Direct Publishing AKA self-publishing.

One thing Amazon does, as a publisher, is to purchase classic mystery/thriller rights. Three examples I know of are Ian Fleming, Ed McBain, and Gladys Mitchell. In the latter two cases, they only bought rights to the older works -- just the ones a new reader of that author would be liable to start with. Anyone with time on their hands may want to scroll down this list of Amazon-published authors to find famous names I have missed:

https://www.apub.com/authors

When Amazon buys rights, they do not buy them in every country. Random House owns the Ian Fleming's James Bond eBook rights for the UK, so you find them in some British libraries but none of ours.

As to how I know what was written in the last paragraph, I know it because I have a bunch of library cards, mostly for nearby Overdrive collections, but also for two competitors I don't think you have in the UK, those being 3M and Axis360. Since I have read about one library eBook a week for the past couple years, I am often doing searches for specific author/titles, and have found patterns.

A few years ago, one pattern was that you would never find a Simon & Schuster book. That changed. Now I usually do. And now the overwhelming pattern I see is that if Amazon publishes it, I don't find it. If the big five publish it, including Hachette, I mostly do. Nothing is really proved in discussions like this, but I wouldn't ignore evidence either.


Agree, despite not having followed the advice in this post

So you are talking ebook rights right?

These days I like to start at the beginning but I don't insist on it as an inalienable right that I should be able to get an ebook copy at a library.

For most of my life I have read authors like McBain and Fleming on an availability basis. I saw an unread book I bought or borrowed it whether it was first, middle or last.

Still do this with ebooks if there is a gap in a series and I want to read a book by the author. Or I buy or borrow the paper copy.

My library has never AFAIK carried the complete works of Ed McBain although they do carry some of his first books in paper.

perhaps it is Amazon's fault and libraries all over the world are clamouring to buy complete sets of these books and many other backlist titles while their patrons are clamoring for the most recent best sellers. I have no evidence either way.

But who do we blame for a library not carrying all of these titles 20 years ago? Or the libraries not carrying all of the backlist or other titles available for library purchase today.

Helen

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

You aren't serious here, but maybe you should be.

No. I feel strongly about sticking with flippant levity at this time. But thanks anyway. Others already have the way-too-serious angle pretty-well covered with regard to this particular dog and pony show.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

No. They refused to accept pre-orders for the ebook. Once the release date arrived, you could buy it.

What is your source for that claim?

My source was a news article quoting people that had not been able to buy. The article was written as it was actually buying and not pre-ordering. So it might be possible that the news article was badly written. But on the other hand it might not and the claim was about actually buying the book.

http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...bert-galbraith

The Kindle edition of the novel, which was published on 19 June in the US, was also unavailable on Thursday, prompting a wave of complaints on Amazon.com. One reader wrote: "I just went to Barnes and Noble and downloaded their free nook app and bought the book from them. You have stupid corporate feuds, you lose, Amazon!", adding: "I've been a loyal Amazon customer for years, but this is ridiculous. You don't stand between a reader and her JK Rowling!" Another wrote: "Been a loyal Amazon customer since it arrived, but this is just ridiculous. Have cancelled pre-order Kindle edition of this book, and buying it from Apple instead. I hope others make the same protest." A third said: "C'mon, Amazon. Settle your differences! Very anxious to read the sequel to The Cuckoo's Calling. Rowling is a terrific writer."

A few hours ago, Amazon.com started selling the Kindle version of The Silkworm, with the novel going on to soar up the online retailer's chart.

This quote was from Friday. So according to this the book was not sold on Thursday when other ebook sellers sold it.

[DiapDealer]

Clearly that article is badly written. Why else would they include a quote from someone claiming to have "cancelled preorder Kindle Edition of this book" so they could buy it somewhere else as "evidence"? Think about why that doesn't track for a second.

What is your source for that claim?

From Amazon's official statement concerning the dispute. http://www.amazon.com/forum/kindle/r...x1UO5T446WM5YY. Bolding mine.

We are currently buying less (print) inventory and "safety stock" on titles from the publisher, Hachette, than we ordinarily do, and are no longer taking pre-orders on titles whose publication dates are in the future. Instead, customers can order new titles when their publication date arrives. For titles with no stock on hand, customers can still place an order at which time we order the inventory from Hachette -- availability on those titles is dependent on how long it takes Hachette to fill the orders we place. Once the inventory arrives, we ship it to the customer promptly. These changes are related to the contract and terms between Hachette and Amazon.

Galbraith's ebook was available for purchase on release day. Who knows... maybe it wasn't available at 12:01am in every customer's timezone, but I'm sure it didn't take very long to become so. It's silly to assume "complaints" made the ebook's availability happen when Amazon themselves said these titles would become available as their publication dates arrive.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Clearly that article is badly written. Why else would they include a quote from someone claiming to have "cancelled preorder Kindle Edition of this book" so they could buy it somewhere else as "evidence"? Think about why that doesn't track for a second.

That tracks perfectly. The pre-order was not delivered when the book was released so the person cancelled the pre-order and bought and got the book from another shop.

Galbraith's ebook was available for purchase on release day. Who knows... maybe it wasn't available at 12:01am in every customer's timezone, but I'm sure it didn't take very long to become so. It's silly to assume "complaints" made the ebook's availability happen when Amazon themselves said these titles would become available as their publication dates arrive.

So you are just claiming things without any basis. Why are you sure when you have claimed empirical observation that it was not available during the release day when it was available in other shops.

[tompe]

And the ebook was available for pre-order early this year.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by tompe

So you are just claiming things without any basis. Why are you sure when you have claimed empirical observation that it was not available during the release day when it was available in other shops.

Let's make this simple, shall we?

Find me one Hachette title that has been published for which the ebook cannot be purchased from Amazon (right now) and that CAN be purchased at another major e-retailer. Not a pre-order ... a purchase. In the U.S. where this dispute is relevant. Not hearsay from others you've chosen to believe. You.

Go.

I am willing to be convinced by your empirical evidence. Until then, I'll trust what I see.

[TCSimpson]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You.

Go.

Made me spit up my yogurt. Do you know how far I had to drive to find me some Chobani!!! *Sighs as I look across the street at the Kosher market*

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by tompe

And the ebook was available for pre-order early this year.

...before the dispute. This is not a complicated concept.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Let's make this simple, shall we?

Find me one Hachette title that has been published for which the ebook cannot be purchased from Amazon (right now) and that CAN be purchased at another major e-retailer. Not a pre-order ... a purchase. In the U.S. where this dispute is relevant. Not hearsay from others you've chosen to believe. You.

Go.

I am willing to be convinced by your empirical evidence. Until then, I'll trust what I see.

What? I just corrected the claim made about the Galbraith book. Nothing else.

And then you without any knowledge at all just claimed I was wrong. I am still waiting for you to admit that you were wrong or find the evidence that my claim was wrong.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

...before the dispute. This is not a complicated concept.

Yes, and your point is?

My point was that it was possible to pre-order so the story in the Guardian is consistent with all the facts.