eBook piracy, how common is it?

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

...how can it be acceptable to download material that has been illegally uploaded?

Personally I think it's ok to do it to check if it's worth buying.
But that's just me - after being ripped off buying too many computer books that were just glorified help files.

Funny how the publishers have only discovered morality since the threat of illicit downloads - meanwhile it's still 'caveat emptor' for the sucke... er consumers.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Heh, in your world, these congresspersons and presidents must pay real attention to the letters from people opposed to parking meters, stop signs, "dogs on leash" ordinances, and so on. When the majority of the population ignores a law, it may simply mean that the law is wrong.

I agree, but this is How It Is. You can be glad about it or sad about it or deeply pissed off. You can believe it's bullshit and unjust and decide right here and now to spend every waking minute of your adult life arguing against it, and maybe you should, but I'll tell you something: If you ever want those arguments to get listened to and taken seriously, you're going to have to demand change through legal avenues, as that is the "dialect" our country (assuming you live in the States) uses to talk to itself.

[Alisa]

Regarding the transit analogy, it came up in another DRM conversation ages ago but I thought I'd dig up my old post and put it here since it gave some interesting figures.

I was reminded of this post this morning while listening to my local public radio station. They had a story on the light rail in LA which uses the honor system. They had a study which said that 11% of patrons routinely do not pay. I don't know what the methodology was but for the sake of argument I'll just accept it as accurate as well as their estimated loss from this behavior of $5.5M. To combat this, they are proposing to install turnstiles at the cost of $30M with an estimated $1M of annual maintenance. This seems so ludicrous to me. Even if you assume that 11% will remain customers once they force people to pay and you will indeed recover that $5.5M and not lose any of the remaining 89% of honest paying customers when you make things slower and tougher for them, the cost really doesn't balance especially when you consider these capital "improvements" are normally done with bond money. Even if they paid cash, the break even point is around 6.5 years. What's the lifespan of the turnstiles? What other improvement could the money be used for? How many of those 11% would be too poor to afford the ticket? It could be a social benefit to allow them free access. It's like the DRM-mentality in so many ways. They just see the fact that someone's getting something for free, not the fact that they may be throwing $10 at a $1 problem and hurting their own product in the process.

[quickhand]

I steal every ebook I read.
And yes, as a writer in the beginning stages of my career I am directly affected by the state of the publishing industry. But the publishing industry will either perish or be unrecognizably transformed in the coming years. It's inevitable. DRM is a stalling tactic, doomed to failure. In my (albeit short) life I've noticed a trend: information becomes more free with time, not less. Attempting to limit access to works of literature, music, intellectual property, is wasted effort.
This transformation will happen, and I'd rather see it happen sooner than later so I can get on with my career.
There are those who claim that the death of the publishing industry means the death of literature. But great works of literature predate the publishing house in its current incarnation - and will survive it.
The writing, the content, the soul of the book, that belongs to the author. Publishing houses sell bound paper, but the book is evolving beyond that crass medium.
What I'm saying is this: we don't need you anymore.
If the publishing industry develops a sustainable business model that assures the future of the book, then I will contribute. Right now they're only standing in the way, scrambling desperately to keep the money that should rightfully belong to authors and creators of content.
Those of us who write for love, and are less willing to bastardize our work for the sake of sales, are at a disadvantage in the current system where writing is judged by profitability, not literary merit. Literary merit is better determined by awards and critics than by numbers sold. Publishing houses are poor stewards of our literary heritage, their demise no tragedy.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

I agree, but this is How It Is. You can be glad about it or sad about it or deeply pissed off. You can believe it's bullshit and unjust and decide right here and now to spend every waking minute of your adult life arguing against it....

Are you talking about "piracy?" Because I can give exactly the same retort to your ranting about it.

The only practical way to combat 'piracy," is by adjusting the pricing structure and business model to the current market.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

DRM exists as a direct result of piracy - just as security systems exist to prevent or deter theft.

While DRM exists *as a result* of piracy, it does not *deter* much piracy. And what it does deter, comes at a price: insulting and alienating would-be good customers.

Don’t blame the industry for DRM, blame those who attempt to circumvent it. Does it suck? Yes – but unfortunately, those who feel as though they are entitled to free software are to blame, while honest folks have to suffer the consequences.

DRM may not stop piracy, but it does deter some folks who might otherwise download illegally.

And it causes others to seek DRM-free copies, if the DRM doesn't work as it's supposed to. And once a person has found a source of cracked content, they're more likely to look for it in the future; a single bad DRM experience can drive a person to the darknet for that book, followed by checking the P2P sites *first* for their next book, rather than risk paying for a product that doesn't work.

The issue isn't whether DRM provides security--it's whether it costs them more paying customers than it prevents copies. A security system that works by flashing a strobe light and setting off a foghorn, will indeed keep your store from most casual theft... and keep away most casual customers as well, especially if it goes off when someone hasn't tried to steal anything.

[sirbruce]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Artists are not "entitled" to be paid for their works (they have to convince someone their works are valuable); they are especially not "entitled" to be paid for the same work for a hundred years. They are given a limited-time, partial monopoly of certain uses of their works--with the purpose of promoting progress in the arts & sciences. When their monopoly stops promoting progress and creativity in others, it should end.

Elfwreck, didn't anyone ever tell you that copying a book from an author without their express permission is *always* wrong? I mean that's like intellectual assault, isn't it?

(No, I don't actually believe the above. I'm just savoring the irony.)

[quickhand]

The publishing houses are trying to do by laws what they can't do by honest competition. Oh, they position themselves as the great defenders of capitalism, but their precious market is turning on them. While publishing houses once provided useful services, namely production, distribution, and marketing, these same services are now available free of charge with the advent of the internet. If they no longer provide useful services, how can they expect to survive the marketplace (without the indulgence of the state, of course)?
So what are they trying to protect with their DRM and copyright legislation? Their own (increasingly) parasitic relationship with the art world.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The issue isn't whether DRM provides security--it's whether it costs them more paying customers than it prevents copies. A security system that works by flashing a strobe light and setting off a foghorn, will indeed keep your store from most casual theft... and keep away most casual customers as well, especially if it goes off when someone hasn't tried to steal anything.

I would be willing to bet that vast majority of consumers who purchase DRM protected media don’t even know that it exists or that what they just purchased harbors the protection.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

I would be willing to bet that vast majority of consumers who purchase DRM protected media don’t even know that it exists or that what they just purchased harbors the protection.

They generally don't until there is a problem reading/using said files, and there are eventually problems a lot of the time. Then you have all kinds of problems and lost sales as a result of said problems.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

They generally don't until there is a problem reading/using said files, and there are eventually problems a lot of the time. Then you have all kinds of problems and lost sales as a result of said problems.

Really, I do some IT work on the side, and I’ve yet to run into a single DRM related problem. When problems do arise, it’s usually because the end user is attempting to circumvent it.

I’ve purchased dozens of DRM protected books from Amazon, and I’ve yet to run into a single issue. Would it be great if Amazon allowed users to read on any and all devices, hells yeah, but they don’t, and I understood and accepted that fact when I purchased my Kindle.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

Really, I do some IT work on the side, and I’ve yet to run into a single DRM related problem. When problems do arise, it’s usually because the end user is attempting to circumvent it.

I’ve purchased dozens of DRM protected books from Amazon, and I’ve yet to run into a single issue. Would it be great if Amazon allowed users to read on any and all devices, hells yeah, but they don’t, and I understood and accepted that fact when I purchased my Kindle.

Are you in a Union or a registered body, or are you registered as an IT professional when you do this 'work on the side'? I only ask because if you're not then, according to all your earlier protestations and statements, then you're taking away the wages from professionals when you do this work. You deprive them of an income.

[Good Old Neon]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

Are you in a Union or a registered body, or are you registered as an IT professional when you do this 'work on the side'? I only ask because if you're not then, according to all your earlier protestations and statements, then you're taking away the wages from professionals when you do this work. You deprive them of an income.

Independent contractor.

And come on, that's just ridiculous.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

Independent contractor.

And come on, that's just ridiculous.

As ridiculous as all your earlier statements. What are your qualifications to do this work? Are you trained? Certified? Part of a professional IT body? You said you 'do it on the side', which in the vernacular I'm used to means 'unregistered'. If you're not qualified and do this work without registration, qualification or pay dues then all those who are and have spent countless hours and money on becoming qualified are losing income due to your work.

The gate swings both ways on this issue. If you want to argue that by the actions of downloaders, authors and other creators are losing income, then I can similarly argue that an unqualified and unregistered IT professional working independently is also depriving those who are qualified from a wage.

[DuneSoldier]

Originally Posted by Good Old Neon

Really, I do some IT work on the side, and I’ve yet to run into a single DRM related problem. When problems do arise, it’s usually because the end user is attempting to circumvent it.

I’ve purchased dozens of DRM protected books from Amazon, and I’ve yet to run into a single issue. Would it be great if Amazon allowed users to read on any and all devices, hells yeah, but they don’t, and I understood and accepted that fact when I purchased my Kindle.

YMMV - My biggest problem is books available in DRM not supported by my reader. That, and the knowledge that if I buy a different reader books that work with my current one (SONY) will only work on a reader from the same manufacturer.

Off the Topic of books, on the PC Side of things I've had problems with Starforce DRM screwing up a Vista x64 install. So there's one reformat and one mark against DRM schemes that limit activations.