Register Guidelines E-Books Today's Posts Search

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-19-2012, 05:44 AM   #361
Format C:
Guru
Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Format C: ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 753
Karma: 1496807
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Third World
Device: iLiad + PRS-505 + Kindle 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks View Post
...

I think I'll bow out of the conversation now as it is depressing for me to see how few people value writers' work and believe the monies shouldn't support the writer (or for very long). Because of my love of reading, I honestly thought people understood how much work, effort and sacrifice went into a book or at least respected that effort (whether it is good or not, makes money or not.)

I'm surprised to see how many think that PD is more important and that it somehow applies to books when it doesn't apply to land or other talents.

I get that PD is important. I understand that very well, but there's definitely a lack of support for the writer being able to make a living in some of these posts, a lack of caring about the writer and pointing to a faceless "greater good."

I have enjoyed the discussion, but I'm off to immerse myself in other things. It's always good to see different POV and to better understand human nature.
I'm sorry, but in the several pages of this thread I missed people not valuing the wirter's work. Quite the contrary, instead.

What I definitely see in your post, though, is that old assumption that you won't be able to make money out of your work with "only" a quarter of a century of monopolistic copyright.
I'm sure you're smart and talented enough to find a way to make a living out of your writing even if copyright was erased today.

Format C: is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 05:50 AM   #362
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,557
Karma: 93980341
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Format C: View Post
What I definitely see in your post, though, is that old assumption that you won't be able to make money out of your work with "only" a quarter of a century of monopolistic copyright.
I'm sure you're smart and talented enough to find a way to make a living out of your writing even if copyright was erased today.

So, if you build a house, the government should take it away from you after 28 years? If you start a business, the government should take it away from you after 28 years? If you buy shares in a company, those shares should disappear after 28 years?

Why should copyright be different?
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 07-19-2012, 07:12 AM   #363
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse 高貴的老鼠
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 74,059
Karma: 315160596
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: Kindle Oasis
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
So, if you build a house, the government should take it away from you after 28 years? If you start a business, the government should take it away from you after 28 years? If you buy shares in a company, those shares should disappear after 28 years?

Why should copyright be different?
Copyright is different for many reasons, but in the main it's because copyright is a grant of a monopoly by the government.

The expiration of copyright doesn't stop the (ex-)copyright holder doing anything. In particular, The government won't stop them selling the out-of-copyright material book when the copyright expires.

Creating is hard and expensive. Copying is easy and cheap. Copyright law should be a balance between the two to bring the greatest benefit to society.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 07:37 AM   #364
spindlegirl
Wizard
spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
spindlegirl's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,594
Karma: 21245891
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Canada
Device: Kobo Libra h20, Paperwhite 2017, Phone & Tablet w Moonreader
changed my mind on this post because it was a silly idea.

Last edited by spindlegirl; 07-19-2012 at 08:16 AM.
spindlegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 07:52 AM   #365
ficbot
Wizard
ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,409
Karma: 4132096
Join Date: Sep 2008
Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App
But the government CAN take away your house---I forget the legal word for it, but there was a case of it here recently where they needed to build a subway exit in a certain spot to make it an accessible station, and they offered to buy the house at fair market value and the people living there said no. So there was a way they could force it to serve the public good. It doesn't happen often, but it CAN happen.

I am all for author's rights, but it does burn me a little that some authors seem so unwilling to acknowledge that they owe their predecessors too. They don't write in a vacuum. They borrow, however subconsciously it might be, from those who came before. And so, as part of that social contract, I do think they owe it to the public good to let their work return to that vast pool of human culture someday. We can argue on how far away that someday is---I do think life of the author plus a chunk is fair for them to have full copyright protection---but certainly, 50 years after an author has died, I don't think their heirs have any more moral claim on it than the rest of society does.
ficbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Advert
Old 07-19-2012, 07:58 AM   #366
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 85,557
Karma: 93980341
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ficbot View Post
But the government CAN take away your house---I forget the legal word for it, but there was a case of it here recently where they needed to build a subway exit in a certain spot to make it an accessible station, and they offered to buy the house at fair market value and the people living there said no. So there was a way they could force it to serve the public good. It doesn't happen often, but it CAN happen.
Certainly. In the UK they're called "Compulsory Purchase Orders" and frequently happen when new roads, railways lines, airport runways, etc, are built.

Quote:
but certainly, 50 years after an author has died, I don't think their heirs have any more moral claim on it than the rest of society does.
What "moral claim" do you have on a house that your grandfather built 50 years before you were born?
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 08:09 AM   #367
HansTWN
Wizard
HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HansTWN ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,538
Karma: 264065402
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan
Device: HP Touchpad, Sony Duo 13, Lumia 920, Kobo Aura HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by ficbot View Post
But the government CAN take away your house---I forget the legal word for it, but there was a case of it here recently where they needed to build a subway exit in a certain spot to make it an accessible station, and they offered to buy the house at fair market value and the people living there said no. So there was a way they could force it to serve the public good. It doesn't happen often, but it CAN happen.

I am all for author's rights, but it does burn me a little that some authors seem so unwilling to acknowledge that they owe their predecessors too. They don't write in a vacuum. They borrow, however subconsciously it might be, from those who came before. And so, as part of that social contract, I do think they owe it to the public good to let their work return to that vast pool of human culture someday. We can argue on how far away that someday is---I do think life of the author plus a chunk is fair for them to have full copyright protection---but certainly, 50 years after an author has died, I don't think their heirs have any more moral claim on it than the rest of society does.
That is why authors pay taxes, just like everyone else. So why should they owe society MORE than anyone else? Successful authors actually create a lot of jobs at publishers, printers, retailers, etc. And any kind of property right depends on government for enforcement.
HansTWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 08:18 AM   #368
shalym
Wizard
shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.shalym ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
shalym's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,058
Karma: 54671821
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New England
Device: PW 1, 2, 3, Voyage, Oasis 2 & 3, Fires, Aura HD, iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
What "moral claim" do you have on a house that your grandfather built 50 years before you were born?
The fact that I'm living in it and paying taxes on the property, as well as working and paying to maintain it.

This is where the idea of allowing copyright to be extended as long as it is being actively renewed applies. If someone is actively trying to keep a book in copyright, whether it is the original author or their heirs, and is keeping it published (in print or e-version), then the book can stay in copyright. If not, it falls into the public domain.

Shari
shalym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 08:27 AM   #369
DarkScribe
Apprentice Curmudgeon.
DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DarkScribe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DarkScribe's Avatar
 
Posts: 427
Karma: 3286968
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Runaway Bay, QLD, , Australia
Device: Kindle DX Graphite, Touch, Paperwhite, Sony, and Nook.
Post deleted as the post it was in response to has been deleted. We both agree it seems.

Last edited by DarkScribe; 07-19-2012 at 02:16 PM.
DarkScribe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 08:41 AM   #370
spindlegirl
Wizard
spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
spindlegirl's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,594
Karma: 21245891
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Canada
Device: Kobo Libra h20, Paperwhite 2017, Phone & Tablet w Moonreader
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkScribe View Post
Don't you feel that is a bit disingenuous? This doesn't apply as it isn't "exactly the same job". Let's expand on your build a house analogy. If one builder is a craftsman and builds an award winning show home, faultless in every respect, using nothing but the best materials, should he only earn as much as an untrained and inexperienced man who builds a shoddy home that falls below basic building standards? If both builders were to put their respective homes on the open market, the market would swiftly determine the appropriate value of each home. Much as it does with books. A bestselling author will naturally make much more than one who is inept.
I actually edited the post because my analogy didn't make sense. I agree with you.
spindlegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 08:50 AM   #371
ficbot
Wizard
ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ficbot ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,409
Karma: 4132096
Join Date: Sep 2008
Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App
It depends on the terms of the building. There was an Ask Metafilter question recently from some people who bought a house, intending to live there for years, and had some very nice landscaping done. A few months later, they learned the husband's job was being transferred and they had to sell the house. They got much more than what they paid for it because the landscaper's work had increased the value, and he was coming after them for a share of the profits and they wanted to know what their rights were. The answers they got were overwhelmingly that they were in the clear. They paid the landscaper for his work, it was work for hire, and it was done.

Similarly, my grandfather (since Harry brought him up) has a house which is on a valuable property. The house itself has fallen into disrepair. It would need to be torn down and rebuilt to be habitable again when he passes. So his heirs have the choice to pay whatever it would cost to refurbish the house or tear it down or rebuild it, or they can just sell it as is and let whomever buys the land deal with it, which is likely to happen. A hundred years from now, let's say the new owners of the house turn it into a hotel and make pots of money. Should we be entitled to a share? Of course not.

Or, to turn it back to culture for a moment, let's say that my cousin, who is a musician of some local acclaim, becomes super-famous in the next few years and a hundred years from now, they want to turn Grandpa's house into a museum about his work. Who should get the profit from it? Well, I think it depends. The owners, whomever they might be, own the house, absolutely. But let's say my children have inherited, as part of my personal belongings, rare photographs of him and the house wants to exhibit them. Then my children should get paid a license fee for it.

Look, if something is in the public domain, it doesn't mean theoretical heirs can't profit from it too. Bram Stoker's great-grandson published a mediocre Dracula spin-off a few years ago that likely would not have seen the light of day had he not cashed in on the Stoker name. The public domain just means that *I* could write one too, because the work has passed into the public domain and become part of humanity's shared cultural heritage. If JK Rowling's great-grandchildren want to write their own Harry Potter novels, who is stopping them?
ficbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 09:41 AM   #372
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,034
Karma: 18736532
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
So, if you build a house, the government should take it away from you after 28 years? If you start a business, the government should take it away from you after 28 years? If you buy shares in a company, those shares should disappear after 28 years?

Why should copyright be different?
While I think 28 years is too short a period, the government doesn't take anything away when copyright expires, the granted period of exclusivity simply expires.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 11:24 AM   #373
speakingtohe
Wizard
speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,812
Karma: 26912940
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumIguana View Post
While I think 28 years is too short a period, the government doesn't take anything away when copyright expires, the granted period of exclusivity simply expires.
Are you implying that squatters rights should apply in 28 years?

Not disagreeing in principal, but I wouldn't like it. And imagine the effect on the economy.

Helen
speakingtohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 12:43 PM   #374
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,034
Karma: 18736532
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by speakingtohe View Post
Are you implying that squatters rights should apply in 28 years?

Not disagreeing in principal, but I wouldn't like it. And imagine the effect on the economy.

Helen
I didn't say anything about squatting. What I meant was that while I think 28 years is too short a period for copyright, nothing is taken away by the copyright period expiring and the work entering the public domain, it's like the expiration of a lease.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2012, 01:21 PM   #375
speakingtohe
Wizard
speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.speakingtohe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,812
Karma: 26912940
Join Date: Apr 2010
Device: sony PRS-T1 and T3, Kobo Mini and Aura HD, Tablet
I know you did not mention squatting, but it seemed to be implied. If exclusitivity is removed from a house for example, you or your heirs still own it, just not exclusively. Someone else could go live there too.

Not the way the world works at present, and I am sure that some would argue that most homeowners would work hard and build or buy houses just from the overwhelming desire to do so, whether or not they got any long term benefit from them. Probably a few hundred would.

Helen
speakingtohe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ebooks for Libraries - A Petition Meemo General Discussions 7 05-06-2012 03:00 PM
Tablet petition for NC/NT keyboard/case Marseille Nook Color & Nook Tablet 3 03-29-2012 10:41 AM
Petition regarding ACTA Sil_liS News 31 03-04-2012 05:20 AM
UK ebook VAT petition pdurrant General Discussions 27 09-29-2011 07:13 PM
In Copyright? - Copyright Renewal Database launched Alexander Turcic News 26 07-09-2008 09:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:16 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.