Do you pirate books and why?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Nook and kindle allow you to lend books (for 14 days, 1 time per book) to another individual with a nook or kindle account, as long as the publisher allows it as well.

Only in the US, unfortunately.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Only in the US, unfortunately.

For as many people as request this (or complain about it) the interesting thing to me is that the two lending sites I'm on don't seem terribly active. Now that could be because lending can only be done once. Or it could be because the vast majority of books that people want are the expensive ones (8 or so US or UP.) I joined lendleme to see how it all worked and for the most part, the books that are lendable are also cheap. I looked for a few favorite authors: Patricia Briggs, Ilona Andrews, John Levitt. Not lendable. Then I tried some authors that I've been wanting to "try" because I'm not sure I'll like them: Rachel Aaron, Patricia Wentworth, Brent Weeks. Nope, can't try them via lending.

This is where the publishers miss out, possibly even worse than library lending. Like a lot of people, I like to try new authors, but at 8 or 9 dollars a pop, I can't try very many. I can buy used or I can do 4 for 3 (which may or may not be cheaper than used). Ideally, I could buy these authors on impulse if the books were a little cheaper, if there was 4 for 3 in Kindle downloading or if I could borrow the first in the series to see if I liked the author. But none of these avenues are available to me so for now they sit in the wishlist. If the past is any prediction of the future, several of these books will remain untried just due to the high prices. I can't buy all the books that I'd like to read.

None of these authors are in Amazon's attempt at lending either (Prime program.) For lending programs to work and for people to be willing to pay for a lending service, there has to be more books available. Netflix doesn't make money because they only offer 10 percent of the movies available. They are able to offer a service because they have a huge choice. I think Amazon knows this, but the publishers don't want to embrace any kind of lending model. And that's silly. There's money to be had there for the right kind of program.

[Synamon]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

For as many people as request this (or complain about it) the interesting thing to me is that the two lending sites I'm on don't seem terribly active.

Most people complaining about the vendor lending service restrictions (ie. only in the US, only lend once for a short period, publisher whims, compatible platforms) aren't interested in lending sites like you described, they want to lend their books directly to their friends or family. Sharing books is part of many people's reading experience and unless you are willing to violate copyright and/or license agreements it's hard to do with ebooks at the moment.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Synamon

Most people complaining about the vendor lending service restrictions (ie. only in the US, only lend once for a short period, publisher whims, compatible platforms) aren't interested in lending sites like you described, they want to lend their books directly to their friends or family. Sharing books is part of many people's reading experience and unless you are willing to violate copyright and/or license agreements it's hard to do with ebooks at the moment.

I can see that. When I do lend books, it's most often to my good friend. But so far, other than her, only one other person that I know has asked to borrow a book!

I do think being able to lend a book at least once is a good policy and I agree it should be worldwide.

[slowfax]

It depends :-)
There are different copyright laws in different countries. Let's take an example:
In Canada a book is "free" 50 years after the author's death.
In Germany the same book is "free" 70 years after the author's death.
So I can get books by Thomas Mann (nobel prize winner) in German language for free from canadian Gutenberg, but NOT from german Gutenberg server.
I (as a German citizen) don't feel guilty, if I download Thomas Manns books from Canada, even if I hurt german copyright laws.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No intention to be impolite, Paul, but it really does strike me that the best way to say "thank you" for our eBook library is to do something to improve it, even if that "something" is only to proof-read a book and tell the poster about the errors that are found in it, so it can be improved for future readers.

The number of people who contribute to our library is tiny. While thanks are, of course, always nice to have, practical contributions really are the best way to way "thank you" and show that you mean it!

I appreciate what you're saying, Harry, and you have certainly contributed more than your share of ebooks to the library, but you need to remember that not everyone has your skill sets. Uploading an ebook to the Patricia Clark Memorial Library can be a daunting task. It requires people to know how to format, convert files, proofread; not to mention the need to know how to do copyright searches. It's not for everyone. Besides, many members are already doing quite a bit for MobileRead in other ways, and others already have a full plate and just don't have the time.

That being said, from someone who has only uploaded a couple of books to the library, thanks for all your hard work, Harry. It has not gone unnoticed nor unappreciated. You're a real trooper.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I appreciate what you're saying, Harry, and you have certainly contributed more than your share of ebooks to the library, but you need to remember that not everyone has your skill sets. Uploading an ebook to the Patricia Clark Memorial Library can be a daunting task. It requires people to know how to format, convert files, proofread; not to mention the need to know how to do copyright searches. It's not for everyone. Besides, many members are already doing quite a bit for MobileRead in other ways, and others already have a full plate and just don't have the time.

That being said, from someone who has only uploaded a couple of books to the library, thanks for all your hard work, Harry. It has not gone unnoticed nor unappreciated. You're a real trooper.

No skills or time needed for the kind of thing I had in mind, Tom. When you're reading a book from our library, if you happen to notice an error, just set a bookmark on that page. When you finish the book, drop the uploaded a PM and say, "I spotted these errors while I was reading the book...". I guarantee that the uploader will be very grateful, and the book will then be better for the next reader.

There are several people who do this regularly; their feedback is very welcome, and they are making a genuine contribution to the improvement of the quality of our library.

[Katsunami]

I'm going to put some oil onto the blaze here... forgive me.

Why would someone go through the hassle of lending a digital book from someone (with restrictions of 2 weeks per book, only once per book, and so on) when he can get it for free from a torrent, forever, within seconds...?

In my opinion, the point is still the same: often, piracy is easier / cheaper / less restrictive than the official ways, and as long as this is so, piracy will never go away.

I said it in two other posts already. Look at GoG.com. They sell games with no restrictions, with tons of extra stuff, fully patched up to the latest version, and patched extra to be able to run a 10-15 year old game on Windows 7. No CD-cracks, no restrictions. Prices are between $2.95 and $9.95 depending on the age of the game.

With those prices, these prices, and that service of making a game runnable on Win7, while the original even doesn't do that, I don't even think about pirating that stuff.

The only thing they ask is: "Please don't give our stuff away, OK?" And they sell games by the millions.

That's the way to go against piracy: providing more value on the original products; provide more value than the pirated versions can. Providing more restrictions will just *cause* piracy.

For eBooks that could be:
- No restrictions, available in all formats. If you buy a book, you can download in all formats that exist up to that day (with new formats added in the future if necessary).
- Impeccable layout and markup, which a pirated and scanned copy mostly never has.
- Very good price (some authors/publishers seem to start to grasp this already)
- Easy to get: Log into the store, buy with one click, SEND. Like Amazon, but have the file sent to a normal mail address with a specific subject in the mail: [EBOOK] A Title by Author. On the Reader: Press "Get Books". The reader needs to be set up to fetch only the mails with the specific [EBOOK] subject.
- Make this workable between any store, and any reader.
- Add options to send all your books at once.

Amazon already has part of this, and it's one of the reasons that the Kindle is so successful. Apple has it too, with the iPod and other iDevices; and they're successful too. After the ease of use and added value parts where done (in the music industry), sales shot up by many percents. This can happen in the eBook-world too, and not only with Amazon.

[ProfCrash]

Because paying for someones completed work is the right thing to do. If we do not pay authors, they will have little incentive to write and we will have little to read. Because owning someones work for free was pretty hard to do, not to mention illegal, up until the advent of the internet.

Because you do the right thing not because it is easy or cheap but because it is the right thing to do.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Why would someone go through the hassle of lending a digital book from someone (with restrictions of 2 weeks per book, only once per book, and so on) when he can get it for free from a torrent, forever, within seconds...?

Because some people - in fact, the overwhelming majority of people - are honest, and don't approve of breaking the law.

[Krystl]

Harry, that I can and will do, when the time comes--as long as i remember, who edited it

[xg4bx]

pottermore came up in another topic. the harry potter ebooks still aren't legally available. however retail quality versions have been up on the pirate sites since 2007.

knowing that, what fan is simply going to sit twiddling their thumbs until they're finally allowed to do the "right thing"?

there are plenty of people who want to do the right thing. however publishers and authors themselves don't always make that very easy.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by xg4bx

pottermore came up in another topic. the harry potter ebooks still aren't legally available. however retail quality versions have been up on the pirate sites since 2007.

knowing that, what fan is simply going to sit twiddling their thumbs until they're finally allowed to do the "right thing"?

Probably relatively few; I said myself right at the start of the thread that the case where there IS no eBook commercially available is one in which I personally consider downloading a pirated book to be ethically justifyable, if you've bought the paper book.

I have a copy of the Harry Potter eBooks myself (as well as two sets of the paper books). The key question is what all those people will do when legal eBooks do become available: will they buy them? I certainly shall.

[ProfCrash]

The Harry Potter books are the only books I have that I should not have. I bought the hardback and paper backs. When the e-books come out I will pay for them because it is the right thing to do.

I remember when Anne Rice's books were not available as e-books. She was very vocal in that she wanted them made available and the problem was the Publisher.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Because paying for someones completed work is the right thing to do. If we do not pay authors, they will have little incentive to write and we will have little to read. Because owning someones work for free was pretty hard to do, not to mention illegal, up until the advent of the internet.

Because you do the right thing not because it is easy or cheap but because it is the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because some people - in fact, the overwhelming majority of people - are honest, and don't approve of breaking the law.

You think like that, and I do too. (At least, almost all the time.)

Many other people don't *ever* think like that, and they just want their products as fast, cheap, easy and restrictionfree as possible.

There are many initiatives that prove that these demands can be met; just give the purchased product more value than the pirated product, and you're there. I am sure more and more people will then stop pirating.

The only people that will *always* pirate are the ones thinking that they are entitled to have any digital "stuff" for free, because it isn't a physical object.

They will go to any lenghts to get it for free, even if in the end the pirated product is more expensive because of extra time spent to download, crack, hack, update, and patch it and the frustration that comes with it. (Maybe even doing it twice or thrice because they downloaded a non-working version...) With those people, no (combination of) advantage(s) will ever beat free, and that can't be changed.