STUDY SHOWS: Ditching DRM could reduce piracy, prices

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So why do you have a lock on your front door? You don't really think it's going to stop a burglar, do you?

Do you insist that everyone who exists in your general area walk around with electronic tracking anklets to act as a deterrent against breaking into your house?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by howyoudoin

Do you insist that everyone who exists in your general area walk around with electronic tracking anklets to act as a deterrent against breaking into your house?

Not at all. I'm the one who's saying that deterrents such as locks DO work, even though they can be circumvented. It's other people who are arguing that they are pointless.

[howyoudoin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Not at all. I'm the one who's saying that deterrents such as locks DO work, even though they can be circumvented. It's other people who are arguing that they are pointless.

But mate, the 'lock' equivalent already exists. Amazon don't open up their online doors and let people download what they want. They lock the content away and the key to get the content is to make a monetary purchase through a secure channel. Every online store locks its doors.

DRM is an entirely different beast that treats every customer as a thief.

[Kirtai]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So why do you have a lock on your front door? You don't really think it's going to stop a burglar, do you?

It's to stop dishonest people of course.
Note that this is not the same thing as professional (or even opportunistic) criminals.

Honest people don't need help staying honest. The problem is that completely honest people are very, very rare.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by HarryT

A more likely scenario is the person who "borrows" the book from the library, knowing that they can strip the DRM and keep it, INSTEAD of buying the retail version of the book. That's most assuredly a lost sale.

Again, not if they were not going to buy it anyway. <shrug>

and perhaps if it were priced reasonably, they WOULD buy it instead of finding a way to steal it. As has been mentioned many times, virtually all books of note are already out there on the dark net...

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

A more likely scenario is the person who "borrows" the book from the library, knowing that they can strip the DRM and keep it, INSTEAD of buying the retail version of the book. That's most assuredly a lost sale.

I tend to agree. Library books are (IMO) the one use of DRM that I have no problem with. I wish it were harder (or at least a different process) to remove DRM from library books. In all of the other DRM stripping scenarios, the personal information/software/hardware necessary to remove the DRM, pretty much assures that the purchaser of the ebook is the only one who can (easily) remove the DRM from it. I can easily see a library becoming a free book-store for some (some... not all... maybe not even many). But also, I guess it can probably be argued that a library has always had the potential to take sales away from authors/publishers regardless of the medium.

And now that they're lending ebooks that are readable on pretty much any device made... I just don't see any really valid reasons for the removal of DRM from library books. Even for simple circumvention of the waiting list/lending period constraints. I understand that many who remove the DRM from library books do delete them when they are done—and that that "honest" stripping doesn't take any food from anyone's mouth—but I just don't like breaking rules that make sense to me for the most part. And DRM on library books makes sense to me. DRM on books that I've purchased (please, no lectures on the difference between "licensed" and "purchased") doesn't make sense to me.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Kirtai

It's to stop dishonest people of course.
Note that this is not the same thing as professional (or even opportunistic) criminals.

Honest people don't need help staying honest. The problem is that completely honest people are very, very rare.

Yes, and that's exactly my point. Many people who would probably consider themselves to be entirely honest would probably not think twice about giving a friend a copy of an eBook. The DRM helps prevent this. WE know that DRM is trivial to remove, but we don't represent the typical eBook reader.

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Not at all. I'm the one who's saying that deterrents such as locks DO work, even though they can be circumvented. It's other people who are arguing that they are pointless.

I agree with Harry this time, the locks on my doors give me time to remove the safety.

(Perhaps, for non-Texans like Harry it would be "time to grab the cricket bat"?)

Luck;
Ken

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

I agree with Harry this time, the locks on my doors give me time to remove the safety.

(Perhaps, for non-Texans like Harry it would be "time to grab the cricket bat"?)

Luck;
Ken

From a former very near the border Oklahoman.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, and that's exactly my point. Many people who would probably consider themselves to be entirely honest would probably not think twice about giving a friend a copy of an eBook. The DRM helps prevent this. WE know that DRM is trivial to remove, but we don't represent the typical eBook reader.

It is easy to be honest when parents or cops are watching. It is easy to be honest when the large padlock is apparent, or when the cameras are tracking you.

It is when you know you have the means to circumvent the locks, the safeguards, the preventive measures, with little chance of being caught, and when you can also impress yourself and your friends by doing it that it becomes less than easy to be honest.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so I attached one I happened to have and altered it for this post. Consider that it shows the CROWD that has crossed the honesty line, and now they resent that another person refuses to do the same and follow them, for that implies (to them) that they are somehow less than the honest individual. It really seems to set them off, as you might observe in the picture, and in this very thread.

[ScalyFreak]

Originally Posted by frahse

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so I attached one I happened to have and altered it for this post. Consider that it shows the CROWD that has crossed the honesty line, and now they resent that another person refuses to do the same and follow them, for that implies (to them) that they are somehow less than the honest individual. It really seems to set them off, as you might observe in the picture, and in this very thread.

You really don't understand our complaints at all, do you? I would have expected that with all the time and emotional investment you've spent in this thread you would at least have gleaned some minor insight into the mindset of the ones you're so determined to despise you can't actually hear them. I guess that's too much to ask.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

You really don't understand our complaints at all, do you? I would have expected that with all the time and emotional investment you've spent in this thread you would at least have gleaned some minor insight into the mindset of the ones you're so determined to despise you can't actually hear them. I guess that's too much to ask.

No, some do not and will not. It's really no different that religion or technology wars. Those firmly entrenched can't even hear the others words.

Have faith though. Those that are listening will hear the words and know the truth.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by HarryT

A more likely scenario is the person who "borrows" the book from the library, knowing that they can strip the DRM and keep it, INSTEAD of buying the retail version of the book. That's most assuredly a lost sale.

Yes, but it's still not hurting the library. I'm not saying it's a good thing, just that the library doesn't suffer any dire consequences, as the poster I was responding to seemed to think.

Edited to add:

I've seen a notice "Attributor Protected" on some library books lately. Even after Googling it, I'm not too clear on what it means. I haven't yet come across it on a book I've purchased, so I don't know if it interferes with stripping DRM.

[frahse]

Originally Posted by ScalyFreak

You really don't understand our complaints at all, do you? I would have expected that with all the time and emotional investment you've spent in this thread you would at least have gleaned some minor insight into the mindset of the ones you're so determined to despise you can't actually hear them. I guess that's too much to ask.

I am afraid that you don't realize the efforts I have made not to directly vilify anyone in particular in this thread, or even to state my objections to DRM breaking as strongly as I might.

Just as I said to teh603, that there was only a slight brush of air from what she supposed was a "hammer." That was intentional. I don't want to hurt people, even if they have hurt me.

But on the other hand you speak of "emotional investment." Don't you think that I have an emotional investment in some of the books that have, by my reasoning, been purloined from me, and then bragged about by the people that did it.

What many here don't realize is that digital books, electronic readers, electronic copies of books at libraries are all made possible by DRM. No DRM, then none of that would exist.

Now would piracy exist? Yes it would, but that doesn't excuse the DRM stripping piracy.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by frahse

I am afraid that you don't realize the efforts I have made not to directly vilify anyone in particular in this thread, ...

..

What many here don't realize is that digital books, electronic readers, electronic copies of books at libraries are all made possible by DRM. No DRM, then none of that would exist.
...

I'll say it again, piffle. Total delusion. You are the one that needs to do some research. Ebooks existed well before DRM, I've been tracking their development since the 80's.

You got something to say, say it. You've clearly not been around here long enough to see the knock-down drag-out battles over this topic. You might want to just bow out now, but feel free to do some searches on copyright and drm to see what has been said before.