Notable quotes, excerpts, and profound lines.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

Um, I haven't read it - I was attempting a pun on different meanings of 'address' .
(Pretending "Birmingham, England" was a postal address, rather than the location for a spoken one.) Sorry.

In the immortal words of Kelly Bundy, "I'm so smart--I'm a genie!"

That one went right over my head!

[BenG]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

In the immortal words of Kelly Bundy, "I'm so smart--I'm a genie!"

That one went right over my head!

Lincoln must have lived in Pennsylvania, 'cause he gave that speech at his Gettysburg address.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by BenG

Lincoln must have lived in Pennsylvania, 'cause he gave that speech at his Gettysburg address.

Now you're just rubbing it in!

[WT Sharpe]

.....Heterosexual love, in the Old Testament, is sometimes down-to-earth; very material and deliciously sensual, as when Solomon* tells his future bride:

....."You are stately as a palm tree,
..........and your breasts are like its clusters.
.....I say I will climb the palm tree
..........and lay hold of its branches.
.....O may your breasts be like
..........clusters of the vine,
..........and the scent of your breath like apples,
.....And your kisses like the best wine
..........that goes smoothly
..........gliding over lips and teeth."

.....But in the New Testament, sex becomes non-erotic and full of self-denial. Paul advises that "It is well for a man not to touch a woman," but he concedes that marriage is a last resort for those who can’t be celibate. Because pent-up desires can lead to fornication or adultery, "each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. Their duty is to use sex as a safety valve and to produce children. Divorce is forbidden. "To the unmarried and the widows," Paul warns, "I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn." And better to marry than to burn with desire, which he depicts as a private hell in which sin walks one’s nerves as if they were so many tightropes.
..........— Diane Ackerman(1948 - ), American author, poet, and naturalist. A Natural History of Love (1994). A footnote reads: The word "testament" comes from the Indo-European root tre, having to do with triads: two deal makers and a witness. A testament was a pledge and it concealed the idea of castration. When a man swore something was true ("giving testimony"), he put his hands on his testicles. In effect, he was saying, You can cut off my balls if I’m lying. In time, law courts decided that asking a man to put his hands on the Bible might be more decorous.

* It is extremely doubtful that Solomon actually penned those lines, as the Song of Solomon contains evidence of multiple authorship.
...— Tom

[Ea]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

* It is extremely doubtful that Solomon actually penned those lines, as the book contains evidence of multiple authorship.
...— Tom

Does it matter?

(yes, I know it does - just wanted to comment on the poetic value)

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Ea

Does it matter?

(yes, I know it does - just wanted to comment on the poetic value)

I think the poetry is wonderful!

[Ea]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I think the poetry is wonderful!

Much better than Paulus

[beppe]

I could not resist to whirlwind this.
Heterosexual love by Tom. Then I thought to get a poem by Saffo. surfing I came to this Sapphic stanza by Allen Ginsberg.

Red cheeked boyfriends tenderly kiss me sweet mouthed
under Boulder coverlets winter springtime
hug me naked laughing & telling girl friends
gossip til autumn

So I found something, The translation that Catullo made of a Saffo poem that I quote in English. Catullo is a he, and puts a he where Saffo put a she in this poem in honor of her Lesbia.

(Just the raw, unpoetic English, simply for comprehension)

He seems to me to be equal to a god,
he, if it is permissible, seems to surpass the gods,
who sitting opposite again and again
sees and hears you,
sweetly laughing, which stole all
the senses from miserable me: for when I look at you,
Lesbia, no voice is left to me in my mouth.

But the tongue slips, under the limbs
a thin flame pours down, with their own sound
the ears are ringing, the lights (eyes)
are covered by twin night.
Leisure, Catullus, is mischievous to you:
You revel in and desire leisure too much:
Leisure has previously destroyed kings and
blessed cities.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Ea

Much better than Paulus

The Song of Solomon contains some extremely erotic and beautiful poetry. In the following passage from the second chapter (verses 10-17, King James Version), I've often seriously wondered if the phrase "he feedeth among the lilies" is a euphemism for cunnilingus:

.....My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
.....For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;
.....The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;
.....The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
.....O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.
.....Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.
.....My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies.
.....Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by beppe

I could not resist to whirlwind this.
Heterosexual love by Tom. Then I thought to get a poem by Saffo. surfing I came to this Sapphic stanza by Allen Ginsberg.

Red cheeked boyfriends tenderly kiss me sweet mouthed
under Boulder coverlets winter springtime
hug me naked laughing & telling girl friends
gossip til autumn

Ginsberg was an extremely talented poet, but reading his works usually depresses me, as he's so hung up on his mother's mental problems, which he describes in ways that leave no painful detail to the imagination. He was obviously a deeply troubled soul.

Originally Posted by beppe

So I found something, The translation that Catullo made of a Saffo poem that I quote in English. Catullo is a he, and puts a he where Saffo put a she in this poem in honor of her Lesbia.

(Just the raw, unpoetic English, simply for comprehension)

He seems to me to be equal to a god,
he, if it is permissible, seems to surpass the gods,
who sitting opposite again and again
sees and hears you,
sweetly laughing, which stole all
the senses from miserable me: for when I look at you,
Lesbia, no voice is left to me in my mouth.

But the tongue slips, under the limbs
a thin flame pours down, with their own sound
the ears are ringing, the lights (eyes)
are covered by twin night.
Leisure, Catullus, is mischievous to you:
You revel in and desire leisure too much:
Leisure has previously destroyed kings and
blessed cities.

I assume you meant Sappho; correct me if I'm wrong. That's a lovely poem.

[astra]

WOW
Guys, where do you get good quality grass?

[Ea]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

The Song of Solomon contains some extremely erotic and beautiful poetry. In the following passage from the second chapter (verses 10-17, King James Version), I've often seriously wondered if the phrase "he feedeth among the lilies" is a euphemism for cunnilingus:

.....
.....My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies.

Interesting. But I wondered if you happen to have a translation that's written more for accuracy that poetry (as far as I understand, the King James version is not) - because I couldn't resist checking a Danish version (a 1931 translation), which gives the word as: 'vogter' - which translates to watcher, keeper, guardian, shepherd, herdsman, custodian - and as far as I read it, the most accurate translation is 'watcher'.

[beppe]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Ginsberg was an extremely talented poet, but reading his works usually depresses me, as he's so hung up on his mother's mental problems, which he describes in ways that leave no painful detail to the imagination. He was obviously a deeply troubled soul.



I assume you meant Sappho; correct me if I'm wrong. That's a lovely poem, but it's a shame that Catullo felt it necessary to "heterosexualize" the original when he made his translation. I fail to see how that honors her.

I mean Sappho, I just italianized her.

Being translated is like being imitated, it is the highest honor for a poet. Like a peer to peer homage. Simili modo, choosing as nick name for his angel/devil girl the same name of the angel/devil of Sappho is an homage.

I do not thik that he felt it necessary to "heterosexualize" the original when he made his translation. He just translated it and put it on himself. as it fitted like a glove his own feelings. Quite common feelings by the way, although expressed in a high poetical form, both by Sappho and by Catullo. I am speechless. We might say that when we go and pick her up for a date and she comes down the stairs quite divinely attired for an evening out with a bum like you or me,. That is the real marvel to behold.


I am sorry, I got mixed up with the he and the she. And I am not the only one (that was John Lennon, right?)

In the original Sappho (a she) refers to her Lesbia (an other she) and uses the she in her poem

In the Catullo original, that is the translation in Latin of Sappho's poem, with the same Sapphic stanza structure, Catullo (a he) refers to his Lesbia (a different she than Sappho's Lesbia) and uses the she in his poem.

(Let me say the last stupid thing of the day but hopefully not the least). Is it straight now?

astra, want a puff?

[beppe]

Originally Posted by astra

WOW
Guys, where do you get good quality grass?

Do like evrybody else, grow your own

[Ea]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I assume you meant Sappho; correct me if I'm wrong. That's a lovely poem.

Or Σαπφώ to be even more accurate And yes, lovely poem.