The Reading Vent & Rant Thread

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

When I was a kid, I read a book written at a time when slide rules were still in widespread use, but computers had been invented (and were huge power hungry monsters).

In the book, a spaceship pilot was doing complex interstellar navigation calculations with a 3 foot diameter circular slide rule.

Sounds like the astrogation slide rule in Robert A. Heinlein's Starman Jones though as far as I recall, the actual size was never mentioned. Slide rules were also used in The Rolling Stones but I don't remember if they were circular slide rules.

Looking back, there were quite a few science fiction stories I recall where they were still using slide rules though in one, the protagonist kept referring to his pocket calculator as a slide rule.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I don't mind fantasy series where they use more modern language (unless it is an alternate history or something). Even 'quixotic' would be okay for me in a fantasy novel. I mean, it is an imaginary world.

What does pull me out is the use of slang that will be dated in a couple of years.

Yes, after all we assume they aren't speaking English (or whatever) but the Author "translated" it.

Books obviously set as if written in the past, or historical dialogue needs to also avoid modern slang that can become quickly outdated and usually avoid modern usage and newer words. But only applies to settings from the 18th Century till today. Older settings need translation as much as SF & F books because Jacobean and especially Elizabethan English is tiring to read and hard for many, and 15th C is really hard. Note the current King James Bible isn't original, nor was the original actually in everyday English of the 17th Century.

Authors need to research technology and food for the period and location.

Also characters can have "modern attitudes" in ancient settings. It's just some were less common. There are plenty of current politicians and celebrities with nasty outlooks common 3000 years ago. Slavery still exists. Treating people of a different background or sex as less intelligent, capable or deserving of rights is still common.

[DiapDealer]

I'd have no problem if a third-person narrator used the word "quixotic" in a fantasy novel. But it was spoken out loud in dialogue by a character. Sorry... it just doesn't wash. Neither would I be OK with Sam using the word "goldbergian" when speaking to Frodo. No alternative world character should point out another character''s "malapropisms" in spoken dialogue, in my opinion. Feel free to overlook It if you want. I cannot. *shrug*

It's MY reading rant, and I'm sticking with it.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Quoth

Also characters can have "modern attitudes" in ancient settings.

Modern for their place and time is fine. I didn't mean all characters in ancient settings should be rabid bigots, racists and slaveowners. Modern as in full-blown 21st century viewpoints springing up from nowhere? That's not fine in my opinion, that's just lazy writing.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I'd have no problem if a third-person narrator used the word "quixotic" in a fantasy novel. But it was spoken out loud in dialogue by a character. Sorry... it just doesn't wash. Neither would I be OK with Sam using the word "goldbergian" when speaking to Frodo. No alternative world character should point out another character''s "malapropisms" in spoken dialogue, in my opinion. Feel free to overlook It if you want. I cannot. *shrug*

It's MY reading rant, and I'm sticking with it.

You may have your own standards. We may point out that they're illogical.

[Deskisamess]

21st century sensibilities in the 19th century. Zero research of the time frame, especially with medical issues. I read a book years ago that had a doctor giving antibiotics via shots in 1899. The same book was filled with stilted jerky hitting-the-breaks dialogue.

Example: "You are being rude. Beatrice and her parents are friends of mine and your father's. I expect you to dine with us. Do not be late."

"I am sorry for your loss. If you need me please send your grandfather to my office. I will come to you. I will step out now so Becca can help you change."

Gah.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

You may have your own standards. We may point out that they're illogical.

Illogical in your opinion. But otherwise, I concur.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

21st century sensibilities in the 19th century. Zero research of the time frame, especially with medical issues. I read a book years ago that had a doctor giving antibiotics via shots in 1899. The same book was filled with stilted jerky hitting-the-breaks dialogue.

Example: "You are being rude. Beatrice and her parents are friends of mine and your father's. I expect you to dine with us. Do not be late."

"I am sorry for your loss. If you need me please send your grandfather to my office. I will come to you. I will step out now so Becca can help you change."

Gah.

Hell with the antibiotics, etc. that dialogue is just unreadably bad.

Hitch

[4691mls]

I don't read science fiction, but I've seen plenty of Star Trek TV shows. I always figured that there's no way writers could know what slang or other usage would be around in the future so they have to use current language, unless they're going to make up words for their fictional future universe.

Going the opposite direction in time, I've tried a couple of Georgette Heyer books set in the Regency era and found them frustrating because it feels like the author tried too hard to make them sound like they are from another time. All the slang is really annoying to me. I find it easier to read the works of Jane Austen, who actually lived and wrote in the period.

It must be difficult for a writer to try to make language sound authentically from a different time. Some words are no longer used or the meanings have shifted over time.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

More modern language in a fantasy world doesn't bother me either, unless there's a word people in that setting should definitely not know (adrenaline in a medieval setting was one example; there are others).

But of course it is a medieval *fantasy* setting. That makes a difference.

If I were reading a book set during the Crusades and characters acted out of character, yeah.

if I read a fantasy novel in a Crusade-like setting where an army of snakeriders is being held off by dwarves, I'm not worried if their adrenalin is up.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

But of course it is a medieval *fantasy* setting. That makes a difference.

If I were reading a book set during the Crusades and characters acted out of character, yeah.

if I read a fantasy novel in a Crusade-like setting where an army of snakeriders is being held off by dwarves, I'm not worried if their adrenalin is up.

As I said, internal logic is important to me, fantasy world or not (How can people whose science is at the medieval level know about adrenalin?). Obviouly it's not as important to everyone else.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

As I said, internal logic is important to me, fantasy world or not (How can people whose science is at the medieval level know about adrenalin?). Obviouly it's not as important to everyone else.

My thinking about this would be that the physiological result/event, with which we are all familiar--for me, it's that electrical "jolt" in the bottom of my feet--is known to everybody, regardless of when they lived.

The book's characters may not know the word or term "adrenaline," (or what causes that), but surely, they know it's something, yes? The pounding heart, the narrowed vision...? Would you care if they called it something like "jumps"? (or some made-up term).

I'm not arguing; I'm curious. Or do you mean that you object to when they discuss--in this historical period--the effects of adrenalin, in a medical way, of which they could not be aware?

Hitch

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Hitch

My thinking about this would be that the physiological result/event, with which we are all familiar--for me, it's that electrical "jolt" in the bottom of my feet--is known to everybody, regardless of when they lived.

The book's characters may not know the word or term "adrenaline," (or what causes that), but surely, they know it's something, yes? The pounding heart, the narrowed vision...? Would you care if they called it something like "jumps"? (or some made-up term).

I'm not arguing; I'm curious. Or do you mean that you object to when they discuss--in this historical period--the effects of adrenalin, in a medical way, of which they could not be aware?

Hitch

"Jumps" would be fine with me. Adrenaline, for me, is the name of a hormone, not the name of the feeling it causes (regrettably they're used interchangeably in modern fiction). People with a medieval-level civilization cannot know anything about hormones, hence I'll be jolted out of the story immediately.

Possibly people who are used to thinking about adrenaline mostly as a feeling, not a hormone, wouldn't even notice. I do, though.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

"Jumps" would be fine with me. Adrenaline, for me, is the name of a hormone, not the name of the feeling it causes (regrettably they're used interchangeably in modern fiction). People with a medieval-level civilization cannot know anything about hormones, hence I'll be jolted out of the story immediately.

Possibly people who are used to thinking about adrenaline mostly as a feeling, not a hormone, wouldn't even notice. I do, though.

When the term adrenaline fueled is used, you know what it means. If the term jumps was used, the author would have to describe it in more detail when a modern term could have been used instead. I'd go for the modern term.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When the term adrenaline fueled is used, you know what it means. If the term jumps was used, the author would have to describe it in more detail when a modern term could have been used instead. I'd go for the modern term.

You would, but I wouldn't. It just takes me out of the story, and what's worse, I lose any desire to continue. For me that's lazy, inattentive writing. An author should know how to use alternative wording appropriate to the time period, or write modern stuff instead.

Hundreds of fantasy authors have been capable of writing their books without mentioning modern scientific terms.