The 10 Worst Books - Page 24

ShortNCuddlyAm · 12-14-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill_mchale

Gandalf did die. Its part of the christian imagery in the book; each of the christ figures in the book (Gandalf, Frodo and Aragorn) wins a victory over death...

Sigh, anyway, I quite like the Lord of the Rings, but to each their own.

--
Bill

I am fully aware I am in a very small minority by not only not liking the books, but putting them in my worst 5

Personally, I prefer my fantasy to have less overt religious imagery in it. However, I can see what people see in it, and why they like it so much.

desertgrandma · 12-14-2008, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

You haven't finished the story yet!

(And it certainly wouldn't be on my list of worst books, anyway

)

Oh......THAT..........

Laz116 · 12-14-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

He's not going to win any "Mr. Nice Guy" awards, but "unrealistically evil"? No - he certainly didn't come across that way to me. I found it to be an utterly absorbing book; one of the few that I "couldn't put down".

Ok, can you mention one passage in the book where William is portrayed in a somewhat positive light?

I mean, we get that he's a bad person after all the beating and raping and burning down villages and killing of local peasants. Why would Follett find it necessary to write the scene where he tortures cats on top of that. I don't want to be spoonfed by the author when I read, and I feel he does just that.

Same thing with the narrative. It gets so repititive that it becomes a cliché. How many times are things looking up, just when the ruthless evil of Valeran and William yet again destroys everything, and we are back to square one?

I'm well aware that a lot of people enjoyed the book, and that's all good.

I'm just not particularly impressed with neither the characterisation nor the narrative structure of the book myself.

yvanleterrible · 12-14-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

He's not going to win any "Mr. Nice Guy" awards, but "unrealistically evil"? No - he certainly didn't come across that way to me. I found it to be an utterly absorbing book; one of the few that I "couldn't put down".

Agreed with you Harry. The Pillars is one of my favorites also. And I like Gothic architecture so that makes me somewhat biased.

But speaking of villany, the Middle Ages citizen was not policed as much as today's citizen is, meaning that one could easily take the path of evil or the one of good, without being hampered. Try to tell a Baron locked up in his castle that he is wrong and he'll laugh you away for years. If you have read the book (as I hope you have) you will have witnessed a large number of similar situations: as history will also point to you. I've just finished "The Historian" by Elizabeth Kostova where she relates parts of Vlad's prowesses at evil treatments. The exploitation of pain was part of those days' political control and many were adept at the craft, it was expected of a ruler.

What I liked of the Pillars is that it showed a good side of the Middle Ages I did not know of and I found it refreshing.

lilac_jive · 12-14-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Agreed with you Harry. The Pillars is one of my favorites also. And I like Gothic architecture so that makes me somewhat biased.

But speaking of villany, the Middle Ages citizen was not policed as much as today's citizen is, meaning that one could easily take the path of evil or the one of good, without being hampered. Try to tell a Baron locked up in his castle that he is wrong and he'll laugh you away for years. If you have read the book (as I hope you have) you will have witnessed a large number of similar situations: as history will also point to you. I've just finished "The Historian" by Elizabeth Kostova where she relates parts of Vlad's prowesses at evil treatments. The exploitation of pain was part of those days' political control and many were adept at the craft, it was expected of a ruler.

What I liked of the Pillars is that it showed a good side of the Middle Ages I did not know of and I found it refreshing.

I keep waffling on purchasing "Pillars," and I think you just sealed it for me.

Andurian · 12-14-2008, 07:43 PM

I would nominate anything by Lisa Goldstein as my candidate for worst novel ever. For more, see my review of Walking the Labyrinth on Amazon (as Pat Shepard).

astra · 12-15-2008, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

I keep waffling on purchasing "Pillars," and I think you just sealed it for me.

I have read quite a few bad reviews on the book on some fantasy books forums.

HarryT · 12-15-2008, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astra

I have read quite a few bad reviews on the book on some fantasy books forums.

Fantasy? In no way is it a fantasy book - it's a straightforward historical novel. If people are reading it expecting a fantasy, no wonder they are disappointed!

Take a look at the (numerous) reviews of it on Amazon - they are overwhelmingly extremely positive.

astra · 12-15-2008, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Fantasy? In no way is it a fantasy book - it's a straightforward historical novel. If people are reading it expecting a fantasy, no wonder they are disappointed!

Take a look at the (numerous) reviews of it on Amazon - they are overwhelmingly extremely positive.

No. They didn't expect fantasy novel. I just wanted to give as much info as possible about where I have read the reviews.
If I was posting on one of the forums and I wanted to mention this topic, I would say mobileread forum....should they ask me: What? Mobile? If they expected to read about new gadget,no wonder they are disappointed!

Katiesue · 12-15-2008, 07:09 AM

I'm with HarryT on Pillars of the Earth......loved it. I could agree that the characters aren't masterfully sketched, but I found them credible and the portrayal of life at the time was fascinating. If the book is at all accurate, people really lived close to the edge with a precarious food supply and capricious, unpredictable "rulers/lords". Who was it who wrote "Life is nasty, brutish and short"? That's what I kept thinking about when I was reading the book. It makes me very grateful for the relative stability of my life today.

bill_mchale · 12-15-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katiesue

I'm with HarryT on Pillars of the Earth......loved it. I could agree that the characters aren't masterfully sketched, but I found them credible and the portrayal of life at the time was fascinating. If the book is at all accurate, people really lived close to the edge with a precarious food supply and capricious, unpredictable "rulers/lords". Who was it who wrote "Life is nasty, brutish and short"? That's what I kept thinking about when I was reading the book. It makes me very grateful for the relative stability of my life today.

I haven't read Pillars yet, but I did major in history and specialized in Medieval Studies. Yep, life was nasty, brutish and short. You get all sorts of weird contradictions. Sons would wage war on their fathers for the throne they would inherit in time anyway (Richard the Lion Hearted did this to his father Henry II), and slaughter thousands in the name of God.

--
Bill

Harry001 · 12-15-2008, 01:44 PM

for me it's
garp

and

A Son of the Circus

both from John Irving.
i never throw away book - i did with both of them.
take care
harry

wayspooled · 12-15-2008, 02:54 PM

I love Pillars of the Earth. I've always meant to read it again. It was the best book I ever read about medieval --> renaissance which was a fascinating time period for me, until I ran into the Dorothy Dunnett books (which aren't in ebook yet and are set somewhat later.).

In my life, the only book I remember intentionally throwing away is J.V. Jones - The Baker's Boy. I was disappointed because I'd heard so many good things about it being the beginning of a great fantasy series and I thought it was awful. And I've never been able to read anything by Gene Wolfe. The ones I memorably hated were Shadow of the Torturer and Claw of the Conciliator.

Sparrow · 12-15-2008, 03:12 PM

I thought 'Pillars of Earth' was an entertaining romp.
Has anyone read the sequel, 'Word Without End', and can give an opinion on how they compare?

Katiesue · 12-15-2008, 03:41 PM

Yes, I read "World Without End". To me, it was a bit more "formulaic" if that makes sense. If you enjoyed Pillars because of the snapshot in history, then you will probably like "World". It takes place roughly a couple of centuries later and so you get to see a different slice of time and I thought that was interesting. But I didn't think the plot or the characters were as compelling in World as in Pillars.

Long story short.....it's worth the time to read, but not quite as good as the first one.

12-15-2008, 02:54 PM	#358
wayspooled Crab In The Dark Posts: 486 Karma: 2328180 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Device: Tablet PC until a 10" comes out that I like	I love Pillars of the Earth. I've always meant to read it again. It was the best book I ever read about medieval --> renaissance which was a fascinating time period for me, until I ran into the Dorothy Dunnett books (which aren't in ebook yet and are set somewhat later.). In my life, the only book I remember intentionally throwing away is J.V. Jones - The Baker's Boy. I was disappointed because I'd heard so many good things about it being the beginning of a great fantasy series and I thought it was awful. And I've never been able to read anything by Gene Wolfe. The ones I memorably hated were Shadow of the Torturer and Claw of the Conciliator. Last edited by wayspooled; 12-17-2008 at 08:36 AM.

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12-14-2008, 07:43 PM	#351
Andurian You really should try it! Posts: 57 Karma: 137 Join Date: Nov 2008 Device: PRS-500	I would nominate anything by Lisa Goldstein as my candidate for worst novel ever. For more, see my review of Walking the Labyrinth on Amazon (as Pat Shepard).

12-15-2008, 07:09 AM	#355
Katiesue Enthusiast Posts: 28 Karma: 51 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Cybook	I'm with HarryT on Pillars of the Earth......loved it. I could agree that the characters aren't masterfully sketched, but I found them credible and the portrayal of life at the time was fascinating. If the book is at all accurate, people really lived close to the edge with a precarious food supply and capricious, unpredictable "rulers/lords". Who was it who wrote "Life is nasty, brutish and short"? That's what I kept thinking about when I was reading the book. It makes me very grateful for the relative stability of my life today.

12-15-2008, 01:44 PM	#357
Harry001 Addict Posts: 210 Karma: 729 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Tehran/Iran - new posting 2024 Device: Nook glow light 3, 3+ and 4+, Tolino Epos 1, 2 and 3	for me it's garp and A Son of the Circus both from John Irving. i never throw away book - i did with both of them. take care harry

12-15-2008, 03:12 PM	#359
Sparrow Wizard Posts: 4,395 Karma: 1358132 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: Palm TX, CyBook Gen3	I thought 'Pillars of Earth' was an entertaining romp. Has anyone read the sequel, 'Word Without End', and can give an opinion on how they compare?

12-15-2008, 03:41 PM	#360
Katiesue Enthusiast Posts: 28 Karma: 51 Join Date: Jun 2008 Device: Cybook	Yes, I read "World Without End". To me, it was a bit more "formulaic" if that makes sense. If you enjoyed Pillars because of the snapshot in history, then you will probably like "World". It takes place roughly a couple of centuries later and so you get to see a different slice of time and I thought that was interesting. But I didn't think the plot or the characters were as compelling in World as in Pillars. Long story short.....it's worth the time to read, but not quite as good as the first one.

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