Misleading Metaphors That Drive The War On Online Sharing

[1611mac]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

Tin foil hats on, everybody!

I use aluminum pie plates... better shielding! (but you need a chin strap to keep them on.)

[Quexos]

You know, this is interesting because it shows that you (or any other writer for that matter) don't write for the art itself but for the money that you may squeeze out of it. As in, the story is only as good as the money I can make out of it. As in, let's put a sex scene here or a sudden revelation in the plot there because it will sell better like that.
I think Stephen King's experiment with his work "The Plant" for those who remember it, is a perfect example. He wrote one chapter at a time, selling it for whatever price his customers would pay then he went on working on the next chapter. After 5 or 6 chapters he reckoned the money was not good enough anymore as more and more people would download it for the lowest amount or even for free. So he stopped that particular novel. So what does that tell us ?
Mr King Never wrote it for the beauty of it or for the art or because he cared about his story. He only wrote it for the money he could get from it. It wasn't even that he was making 0 dollars, it was that what he was making was not good enough for his taste. And the passion of his work, the art of creating something weighed absolutely NOTHING in his decision.
What about those who paid from the first to the last available chapter ? They ended up paying for something that went nowhere.
So the bottom line is that writing or any other art is not that anymore. It's just plain cold business.
And yes, mortgages, food, gasoline and so on require money so Your post Mr Jordan can be considered a practical point. But to make it completely valid, you must agree that as I said, art is NOTHING more than business and that money is for all of us the ONLY incentive, the only reason to live to do something, to exist. Repairing parts in a factory, mopping floors at a restaurant, treating sick patients in a hospital, writing books or making movies is all just the same.
Makes me wonder if the motto "in god we trust" was not put on dollars by chance but because "god" is precisely what dollars are.

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

If only my mortgage, food, gasoline, train tickets, car repairs and payments were free, too. As soon as you manage those feats, you can talk to me about giving my work away. Until then...

[Quexos]

Why would I not ? I have no reason to do my job but for the money I get from it. I don't create anything, I don't save lives and I don't feed the starving populations, so my job has no absolute value but to help the company and in exchange to give me a little bit of money to continue living.
Now if writers and more dramatically, food providers and doctors admit that they don't do it cause it's necessary but for the money they get as in, if there was no money, your sister or child or wife can die of their medical condition or die of starvation and go to hell for all they care, then yeah, let them ask for all the money they want cause they're in for the money and nothing else.
I guess that shows how deeply wrong and sick our capitalistic system is. Well at least for those who are willing to open their eyes.

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Free is also much simpler for your job -- my guess is that you never take any money for your work?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Quexos

You know, this is interesting because it shows that you (or any other writer for that matter) don't write for the art itself but for the money that you may squeeze out of it. .

He only speaks for himself, money has never really interested me at all and I doubt many people only write for money. You only need to look at all the free fiction on Smashwords to see that. The dream might be to support themselves through writing one day so that they can give up the day job and do it full time, but the whole point of writing is to write. Anything else is a bonus.

[Quexos]

Well I hope my posts don't come too harsh either. I was trying to make a point. That money seem to control every aspect of our lives and every aspects of our societies and that's where the problem lies.
Obviously we need money if for no other reason, to eat and stay alive.
It's our dependence on it that is the problem I think.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

He only speaks for himself, money has never really interested me at all and I doubt many people only write for money. You only need to look at all the free fiction on Smashwords to see that. The dream might be to support themselves through writing one day so that they can give up the day job and do it full time, but the whole point of writing is to write. Anything else is a bonus.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Quexos

You know, this is interesting because it shows that you (or any other writer for that matter) don't write for the art itself but for the money that you may squeeze out of it... So the bottom line is that writing or any other art is not that anymore. It's just plain cold business.
And yes, mortgages, food, gasoline and so on require money so Your post Mr Jordan can be considered a practical point...

I am a practical man, and I write for practical reasons, specifically, to earn some money from entertaining people, just as most of the greatest artists in the world have done. So, feel free to condemn every artist in the world who earns money from entertainment, from Da Vinci and Shakespeare onward, but I am not ashamed of it. Nor will I do it for free.

Originally Posted by Quexos

I have no reason to do my job but for the money I get from it...

I love irony.

Originally Posted by Quexos

That money seem to control every aspect of our lives and every aspects of our societies and that's where the problem lies.
Obviously we need money if for no other reason, to eat and stay alive.
It's our dependence on it that is the problem I think.

Yes, philosophically, a totally free-for-all society is a wonderful concept. However, we are discussing practical matters here. If you want to run an "ebooks and everything else should be free" thread, feel free to start one. But here, that's

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

He only speaks for himself, money has never really interested me at all and I doubt many people only write for money.

Tell that to all the people whose books languish in the Big 6's slushpiles. Doesn't matter if they write only for money or not; more authors hope for eventual compensation for their efforts than you think.

The fact is, we have no right to tell an author, or anyone who does anything, that they can't work for money. And if they do decide to work for money, we have no right to take their work and not compensate them as they desire. We only have the right to walk away and say "no sale."

Again,

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

And I don't behave like the major publishers. Unfortunately, I get tarred by the same brush, as do most indie authors.

I realize digital products are unique. But movies, software, even MP3 files have found a viable selling model that (mostly) satisfies all parties. I don't see ebooks as being that unique.

The big 6 are no more concerned about the indie writer than the music industry was about indie musicians. You're in the same boat as us customers...

Movies and music both produce a quality product to start with. And they do at a price the marketplace can handle. A subhead of Warner Brothers got fired for forcing the cheap DVD model at the beginning, but it was what made DVD's explode. And anybody who wants to rip DVD's can do so. Just scan DVD rippers. Music is non-encrypted, I keep my music library on hard drive (with back-ups). Unlike SONY, I don't consider making a backup of a legally purchased file as theft. And the music indutry now sells digital files cheaper than CDs. It took years and massive losses to force the transition. and even so, piracy is still rife.

But what is "purchase" of digital files? There's no way to make a metaphor without a clear definition, and the only one the consumer gets is "whatever can make us the most money, the quickest". That's not how you make repeat customers in any other industry...

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Tell that to all the people whose books languish in the Big 6's slushpiles. Doesn't matter if they write only for money or not; more authors hope for eventual compensation for their efforts than you think.

They have a different dream, (one of seeing their book in a book shop), but it is still only a dream. And unless they are prepared to write whatever the latest fad is it's even more of a dream than being able to give up their day job.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Not to put it too delicately, but... SO? Who are you to condemn someone's dream?

And what's that got to do with MISLEADING METAPHORS THAT DRIVE THE WAR ON ONLINE SHARING?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Not to put it too delicately, but... SO? Who are you to condemn someone's dream?

And what's that got to do with MISLEADING METAPHORS THAT DRIVE THE WAR ON ONLINE SHARING?

No war is required because piracy isn't the reason for them not fulfilling their dreams.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

No war is required because piracy isn't the reason for them not fulfilling their dreams.

The war is already on, Plop. It has been for quite some time. We're not discussing metaphysical issues of dream fulfillment, we're discussing the protection of copywritten works and the making of profit by those who desire it.

Please come down out from Cloud 9 for awhile and discuss this existing, practical matter with us.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

The war is already on, Plop. It has been for quite some time. We're not discussing metaphysical issues of dream fulfillment, we're discussing the protection of copywritten works and the making of profit by those who desire it.

Profit is part of the dream. And like the book deal dream, there are other reasons why they don't achieve it. Usually one or more of the following:

1. They write crap.
2. They write in an already over-crowded genre.
3. They write in a genre with limited appeal.
4. Nobody has heard of them.

If you can show me one writer who is widely pirated but doesn't sell any of their retail books you might be able to convince me otherwise.

[Greg Anos]

Here's another shot at metaphor - you might call it slogan if you like.

"A Fair Book for a Fair Price"

"A Fair Book" means 1. available, 2. Typo Free, and 3. If there is a typo, you can go to the author/publisher's website and download the correction for free. If they don't have one yet, you provide the mistake to be fixed and you get your money refunded for having to do their work. Simple as that.

"A Fair Price" means never more that the cost of a MMPB. Ever.

And if the product is not available, no whining and sueing pirates who do put it out there. Get It Out There Yourself! THEN you have the moral grounds to sue.

Maybe an organization to support the idea. But don't worry, the big 6 publishers will never let it happen....

Sorta like the Union Label of years ago...

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

If you can show me one writer who is widely pirated but doesn't sell any of their retail books you might be able to convince me otherwise.

Okay: I can't. Online sharing is a MYTH. No author has to worry about losing any money through piracy. It's all a figment of a lot of people's imagination. YOU WIN. Congratulations, the ebook industry is fixed.