Amazon Echo Club

[OtinG]

I just installed a Fire TV Stick 4K 2018. I use an older Sony Bravia LCD TV (10 years old) and a Sony sound base surround sound system. All my video feeds plug directly into the sound base (similar to a sound bar but bigger and flatter). The sound bar produces the audio from my connected devices (Blu-Ray player, Fire TV, Roku). The sound base uses a single HDMI feed to provide the video feed to my TV. So basically the TV is just used as a monitor as I don't use the TVs speakers nor do I change the TV channels or modes. All the changing between devices, modes, etc. is handled via the sound base. Historically this has been a bit of a PITA to use since one remote rarely does everything without a lot of programming, and there are always gotchas and compromises. (Universal remotes never seem to be able to program EVERY feature of EVERY device, hence the gotchas and compromises.) Basically I end up needing multiple remotes even with a programmable universal remote.

So for example, to watch streaming on my Roku, I had to program a string of commands into the universal remote to turn on the TV, turn on the sound bar, switch the sound bar input mode to the proper HDMI channel where my Roku was plugged in, and turn on the Roku. Doable, but clunky. Then I usually set down the universal remote and picked up the Roku remote because it was much easier to use it to control the Roku with rather than using the big, bulky, often confusing universal remote. But even though the Roku remote has a volume control feature, it only controls the volume on the TV and not the sound base. It cannot be programmed to control the sound base volume or any other device's volume accept the TV. So whenever I wanted to change the volume I had to use the universal remote again. Very clunky. As bad as that is, the former Fire TV remotes had no volume control at all, so they were even more useless in that regard. Basically, the best I could hope for was to pick up my Roku or Fire TV remote, press the Home button, and wait for the TV to turn on and the Roku or Fire TV to turn on. (My TV is too old to allow the Roku or Fire TV to turn it on though as it lacks that communication feature.) Unfortunately neither of those remotes could turn on the sound base. If the sound base was already on, then both the Roku and Fire TV remotes would change the sound base input mode to the proper channel, but they cannot do that if the sound base is off. So therein was the reason for using the universal remote to turn on the TV and the sound base prior to turning on the Roku or Fire TV.

So that made for a clunky system as far as remote control goes. However there is good news. The newest Fire TV Stick 4K 2018 has a remote that can power on both my TV and sound base with the push of one button, the Power button. Pressing the Power button on the new Fire TV remote turns on both TV and sound base. Even better, the new Fire TV remote can control the volume on my TV just like the Roku remote, but unlike the Roku remote the new Fire TV remote can be set up to control the volume on my sound base rather than on the TV. Now if I want to use my Fire TV Stick 4K 2018 to stream something, I can use one remote and press one button and the entire entertainment system turns on, activates the Fire TV and I'm ready to stream. No more fumbling around with multiple remotes, unless I want to use the Roku or Blu-Ray player.

Hopefully Roku and other devices will adopt this feature in their remotes soon. Roku would need to add a Power button, but the volume control to control other devices rather than just the TV could probably be added via a FW change.

BTW, you can buy just the new Fire TV remote with Power, volume Up and Down, and Mute buttons to use with some of the older Fire TVs, but it only works with some. It won't work with Fire TV 1st or 2nd generation devices or a few others.

[John F]

Originally Posted by OtinG

...

Hopefully Roku and other devices will adopt this feature in their remotes soon. Roku would need to add a Power button, but the volume control to control other devices rather than just the TV could probably be added via a FW change.

...

Roku may already do this?

https://www.amazon.com/Roku-Ultra-St.../dp/B07HDHXZH4

Reading some of the reviews, it looks like people are using the Roku to control volume (and turn on devices).

I think the key is that the devices need to support HDMI-CEC.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by John F

Roku may already do this?

https://www.amazon.com/Roku-Ultra-St.../dp/B07HDHXZH4

Reading some of the reviews, it looks like people are using the Roku to control volume (and turn on devices).

I think the key is that the devices need to support HDMI-CEC.

I have the latest model to which you linked, the Roku Ultra 4K 2018. It can control my 10 year old TV volume. However, the old TV is not HDMI-CEC supported. So perhaps those who can get it to work are using the TV volume on a TV with HDMI-CEC support and then having their TV control the volume on other devices. That is going to be hit and miss with various devices and not as robust as what Amazon did with the Fire TV remote. Amazon added a menu item that allows you to select devices other than your TV, enter their brand name, and it usually figures out the proper codes from that. Roku should add that bit of code to their Roku firmware to make it as functional as the Fire TV remote, and hopefully they will. In my case, it doesn't work on my Roku Ultra 4K 2018 because my TV doesn't support HDMI-CEC, but Amazon's method is much better because it does not appear to rely on HDMI-CEC support. It merely needs the correct code for the device, just like universal remotes. Also Amazon seems to understand that many users like myself prefer to have their surround sound system (sound base or similar device) control the system rather than having their TV control the system. Sound systems are often way more sophisticated than TVs in that regard and often have more input ports and capability.

Roku is a better device over all IMO because it has a cleaner user interface and doesn't try to force feed you Amazon content all the time. Unfortunately Roku lags behind Fire TV in one app development, and that is the Hulu app. On my Roku Ultra, when streaming live TV via Hulu I often have the audio off-synced with lip movement and I often get annoying stream interruptions even though it is wired directly to ethernet on a 200 Mbips internet connection. The Fire TV Stick 4K is connected via 5G WiFi to the same internet connection and it rarely has those issues. That leads me to believe that the Hulu app provided to Roku is not as well written (code-wise) as the one provided to Fire TVs. I guess that is likely Hulu's booboo though since they are the developers, but it could be a glitch in the Roku FW. I've only noticed this issue on the Roku when using the Hulu app, I've rarely (if ever) encountered it with other apps.

[John F]

OtinG, using Alexa/voice, how do you Watch hulu (assume everything is off, and the TV and Receiver(surround sound system) are on the wrong inputs)?

I'm wondering how it compares to using a Harmony.

Thank you.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by John F

OtinG, using Alexa/voice, how do you Watch hulu (assume everything is off, and the TV and Receiver(surround sound system) are on the wrong inputs)?

I'm wondering how it compares to using a Harmony.

Thank you.

I don’t use Alexa with the Fire TV. I tried it a long time ago when they first made it an option. I used a Dot Gen 2 to ask Fire TV to find certain programming, but it was a disaster. Most of the time she returned videos that were for rent or purchase rather than the ones I asked her to find. I quickly gave up on voice control. Also using Alexa on an Echo or Dot with the TV sound on was a recipe for failure. Mostly she failed to understand what I was asking her to do. I haven’t tried it since.

I might try the Mic button on the remote later to test that, but I will need to search the available commands first. The Mic button is okay for searching inside of Hulu or Fire TV in general, but I haven’t tried much else with it. That is all I’ve used the Mic button for on the Roku remote too.

[OtinG]

Went into my Alexa app to make sure the new Fire TV Stick 4K was listed and was surprised to find two other new devices called “TV” and “Soundbar” both of which state they were set up by my Fire TV Stick 4K. When I set up the Fire TV stick I set it up to work with my TV and sound base, so I guess that caused them to be added to the Alexa app as new devices. Now I’m curious if they can be used in routines and scenes. I will research this when I’ve got the time.

[OtinG]

So far I have been able to link my Echo Plus gen 2 to my Fire TV Stick 4K and I have enabled to Hulu skill. This allows me to go to named channels in Hulu with Live TV. Some channels that is, others won’t work because Alexa is confused. Rather frustrating, just like before...

ETA 1: Okay it looks like certain command words work for some channels but not all. For example saying, “Alexa, go to Animal Planet on Hulu” works, but saying, “Alexa, go to A&E on Hulu” fails. I think perhaps it fails because I have a Fire TV app named A&E. If I say, “Alexa, tune to A&E on Hulu” that works. So you have to know the specific wording otherwise you will be arguing with Alexa. Other than changing channels it looks like you can search for specific shows, pause, restart, stop, and a few other simple tasks. Much easier to use the remote IMO! Probably quicker with the remote too. One exception would be changing Hulu TV channels which is quicker using voice, but I will use the Mic button on the remote instead of messing with my Echo device and arguing with Alexa.

ETA 2: Changing channels by voice seems to work best when saying, “Alexa, tune to [channel name] on Hulu.” However, Alexa does not recognize all the channel names and sometimes just says the channel doesn't exist on Hulu. Rather than argue with a moron all the time, I am going to use the voice control very sparingly, and only use it via the Mic button on the Fire TV remote. Other than changing channels via voice, voice control seems rather pointless to me as it takes longer than just using the remote after you factor in the time it takes to voice a command and the time it takes Alexa to react and the time wasted by arguing with her. Alexa has issues with commands, and so does the Hulu skill. Until both Amazon and Hulu figure out how to program a decent voice interface, it will be rather limited in usefulness and poor in execution. Voice control in general with Fire TV is very poor and will likely get you a ton of suggested videos that cost extra to watch and you will no doubt frequently argue with Alexa.

[OtinG]

Arrrrgh, someone really needs to explain to the Amazon Alexa programmers that AI stands for “Artificial Intelligence” not “Artificial Ignorance.” Just saying....

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by OtinG

Roku is a better device over all IMO because it has a cleaner user interface and doesn't try to force feed you Amazon content all the time. Unfortunately Roku lags behind Fire TV in one app development, and that is the Hulu app. On my Roku Ultra, when streaming live TV via Hulu I often have the audio off-synced with lip movement and I often get annoying stream interruptions even though it is wired directly to ethernet on a 200 Mbips internet connection. The Fire TV Stick 4K is connected via 5G WiFi to the same internet connection and it rarely has those issues. That leads me to believe that the Hulu app provided to Roku is not as well written (code-wise) as the one provided to Fire TVs. I guess that is likely Hulu's booboo though since they are the developers, but it could be a glitch in the Roku FW. I've only noticed this issue on the Roku when using the Hulu app, I've rarely (if ever) encountered it with other apps.

Regarding the audio and the video being out of sync with the Roku Ultra, it seems to be an issue with Roku, not with the Hulu app, because I have that issue with Sling TV, Hulu, Amazon, etc. Restarting Roku resolves it, but it starts to get out of sync again after a while.

I haven't had the problem with Roku Premiere+, but it may just be that I use that device and the accompanying TV much less often.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Regarding the audio and the video being out of sync with the Roku Ultra, it seems to be an issue with Roku, not with the Hulu app, because I have that issue with Sling TV, Hulu, Amazon, etc. Restarting Roku resolves it, but it starts to get out of sync again after a while.

I haven't had the problem with Roku Premiere+, but it may just be that I use that device and the accompanying TV much less often.

I am disappointed that Roku's top of the line Ultra model has a lot of streaming issues whereas the Express model I have that costs 1/4th as much does stream a lot better. Like you though I don't use the TV in my study very much which has the Roku Express and Fire TV Gen 3 attached. Both of those devices do well with streaming various apps, even Hulu with Live TV. The Express does have some issue with buffering and sound/video syncing, but very little compared to the Ultra which is buffering every few minutes when watching Hulu Live TV, often gets sound/video out of sync, and often pops up an error claiming a channel is not available to stream. I have the Roku Ultra and new Fire TV Stick 4K attached to my living room TV. When I switch to the Fire TV Stick 4K those issues are not present, and it rarely has trouble with any streaming from any apps. Nor does the Fire TV Gen 3.

There are a huge amount of complaints in various forums with people saying Rokus have these issues with Hulu Live TV streaming, and most say that both Hulu and Roku refuse to take responsibility. Personally I am currently encountering these recurring issues on the Rokus while in Hulu Live TV. Most apps I've used rarely have these issues, only those that stream live TV. I tried Sling several months ago via Roku but I cannot remember if I had these issues as I quickly decided I didn't like their programming. I tried DirecTV Now a few months ago via Roku and I do remember quite a bit of buffering. I also tried Playstation Vue a few months ago via Roku and don't remember any issues with it. Unfortunately I don't remember now if I tried those services on the Fire TV.

I have now switched over to using the Fire TVs most of the time because they simply work with streaming both on demand and live TV. My Rokus do much better with on demand than they do with live TV, BTW, but they are not as reliable as the Fire TVs. Ironically, both Fire TVs are streaming with 5GHz WiFi connections whereas both Rokus are streaming with ethernet connections, so the advantage should be with the Rokus, yet they cannot compete with the Fire TVs at moment.

I still much prefer the Roku navigation over the Fire TV navigation simply because Amazon is always in your face trying to sell you stuff to watch and they won't allow you to modify the order of apps on the screen. But with voice command on the Fire TV remote I can quickly open the app I need at the time without scrolling the screen to find it. Opening specific Hulu Live TV channels by voice is hit and miss. Many are recognized and will open, others I either get an Alexa reply stating she is basically clueless or it opens another app other than Hulu or opens a search window. That is likely due to both Amazon and Hulu needing to make improvements to the software.

[OtinG]

As for as Hulu with Live TV goes, the programming is pretty good, but I've only had it about two months and they just sent me this email saying they are increasing the price by $7/mo! Ouch!!!

We’re reaching out to remind you that as of today, the price of your Hulu (No Ads) + Live TV plan has increased from $43.99/month to $50.99/month.

This is the risk we take with cutting the cable. The monthly fee services without contracts can raise their rates whenever they want to. I suspect we are getting suckered into the streaming services with low rates but those will likely get as high as cable over time. I've read that many of the streaming services are struggling to make a profit, so expect rate hikes to be frequent.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by OtinG

As for as Hulu with Live TV goes, the programming is pretty good, but I've only had it about two months and they just sent me this email saying they are increasing the price by $7/mo! Ouch!!!



This is the risk we take with cutting the cable. The monthly fee services without contracts can raise their rates whenever they want to. I suspect we are getting suckered into the streaming services with low rates but those will likely get as high as cable over time. I've read that many of the streaming services are struggling to make a profit, so expect rate hikes to be frequent.

That's ridiculous. By the time you add services to make up for cord cutting, you're paying nearly as much or more than just keeping cable.

[OtinG]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

That's ridiculous. By the time you add services to make up for cord cutting, you're paying nearly as much or more than just keeping cable.

It is still about about $30 less than cable was, but it will probably catch up soon. The other fear is that internet providers will start throttling speeds for streaming services, expecially internet providers who have cable services of their own. So far my provider Spectrum has not throttled anything, but they could if they wanted to. Texas is pro business and couldn’t care less about us consumers, so not much chance of the state acting against throttling the way California is.

Hulu with Live TV, which includes the original on demand version of Hulu, is the least expensive option for me to get all the channels I want. Sling and Playstation Vue lack too many channels. DirecTV Now has all my channels, but they cost more and don’t include Hulu on demand of course.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by OtinG

It is still about about $30 less than cable was, but it will probably catch up soon. The other fear is that internet providers will start throttling speeds for streaming services, expecially internet providers who have cable services of their own. So far my provider Spectrum has not throttled anything, but they could if they wanted to. Texas is pro business and couldn’t care less about us consumers, so not much chance of the state acting against throttling the way California is.

Hulu with Live TV, which includes the original on demand version of Hulu, is the least expensive option for me to get all the channels I want. Sling and Playstation Vue lack too many channels. DirecTV Now has all my channels, but they cost more and don’t include Hulu on demand of course.

I'm saving $85/month without cable. Part of that is a special offer for Internet for a year, but even after that I should still be saving $60/month. I just paused Sling to take advantage of a free month of YouTube TV; I haven't tried any other live TV services yet--I like Sling well enough so far.

[John F]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

That's ridiculous. By the time you add services to make up for cord cutting, you're paying nearly as much or more than just keeping cable.

I'm paying about half as much for streaming compared to corded. And I'm getting more features, go figure.