Texas Board of Education at it again Banning textbooks

[nguirado]

Well, the law is written on our hearts, which means that there's a "natural" law that people can discover without revelation.

Originally Posted by Joe Minton

Compassion is an emotion. It is individual and does not require teaching to feel nor to act upon that feeling. In my sixth year I witnessed an act of cruelty upon a beautiful Oriole: the bird, after having its feet shot off and falling to the ground, screamed as loudly and energetically as is could -- I felt that creature's pain and despair. (Don't even attempt to tell me that other creatures do not feel pain and despair!) --- I became, at that moment, a Humanist.

No preacher, no 'revealed' text or other superstition, can replace, enhance or build upon what I learned from that beautiful and condemned creature. My life has been guided, to some significant extent, by that bird.

Nothing I have read, not the Bible, not the Torah, not the Qur'an, not the writings of Thomas Aquinas, Albert Sweitzer or the many other religious (mostly Christian) authors I have bothered with have been more eloquent than that ancient and fellow animal.

When misguided, ill informed, ignorant or just plain stupid people choose to argue over the occupants of the head of a pin -- I am reminded of the Oriole and its plea.

Perhaps Jesus's dying cry was like the Oriole's -- I don't know but I like to think so. I completely believe that we should all be sympathetic to the essential goodness of being alive and sharing this wonderful place in the hostile-to-life universe, no matter how essentially cruel and brutal life is.

As to when we became compassionate: pre-historic graves have contained flowers along with the carefully-arranged remains of people. Anyone who has children knows that 'revealed truth' is not necessary to teach them to feel the joy or plight of others. Maimonides exists today because we learned to write; his teachings, in the long period before writing were, I am sure, still taught. We did not require Jesus, Mohammad or Jerry Falwell to 'set us straight.'

Go read some books. Go witness the pain of others. Act upon both.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by nguirado

Well, the law is written on our hearts, which means that there's a "natural" law that people can discover without revelation.

Citations?

[nguirado]

Some good points. Thank you.

I think I said very clearly that Christianity didn't "invent" caring or charity They are acts of love which have always existed. I should have said that the philosophy of charity is different within Abrahamic religions both in kind (selfless duty) and in the extent to which its emphasized as a virtue than it was in classical Europe.

I should have also said the philosophy of hospitals and their emphasis within society, not that they didn't exist before Christianity. Of course, people have always tried to get well and have gone to specialists to do so.

If you read the e-book (of course) of the Divine Comedy, Christians have always acknowledged the existence of virtue in the classical Western Civilizations.

It's a deep subject. I'll investigate Trajan. The public works wouldn't be what I was talking about, but if he concerned himself with the welfare of his least citizens and slaves then that would certainly modify the way I look at the difference.

Thank you for the perspective, guys. See, learning.

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it is very difficult to call a truce on an issue that you refuse to budge on. unless of course, you are willing to admit that caring and charity did not begin with christianity and is not unique to the belief



don't bother, he's banned

[GA Russell]

Are we still talking about Texas school books? If so, I say that it is good to teach the children the truth about other civilizations, both the good and the bad.

But what is most important is that the children learn about Western Civilization. Archaeologists now agree that the Vikings discovered Newfoundland; but the word never reached the rest of Europe, so what difference does it make? From the point of view of Texans, it was Columbus who discovered the New World.

Similarly, other civilizations which pre-dated Western Civilization may have been the first in the world to do one thing or another, but if the Europeans didn't know about it, then the non-Westerners' actions had no effect on the various settlers of Texas.

I disagree with nguirado's broadly citing the Abrahamic religions as major influences on the West. I say that it was Christianity alone. Constantine became a Christian, not a Jew, and made Christianity the state religion of the Empire. It was priests, not rabbis and imams, who guided the people in the development of Europe's culture from the time of Constantine till the time of Martin Luther.

And the focus of the teachings of the priests was on Jesus Christ. To suggest that it didn't matter whether a clergyman (and the political leaders he influenced) accepted the existence of what St. John called "the Word" (or "the Logos") is to believe that the differences between Christianity and non-Christian religions were small, even trivial. Everything I have read about European history has said that the Europeans believed the differences were great.

[kindlekitten]

thank goodness you are not in charge

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Are we still talking about Texas school books? If so, I say that it is good to teach the children the truth about other civilizations, both the good and the bad.

But what is most important is that the children learn about Western Civilization. Archaeologists now agree that the Vikings discovered Newfoundland; but the word never reached the rest of Europe, so what difference does it make? From the point of view of Texans, it was Columbus who discovered the New World.

Similarly, other civilizations which pre-dated Western Civilization may have been the first in the world to do one thing or another, but if the Europeans didn't know about it, then the non-Westerners' actions had no effect on the various settlers of Texas.

I disagree with nguirado's broadly citing the Abrahamic religions as major influences on the West. I say that it was Christianity alone. Constantine became a Christian, not a Jew, and made Christianity the state religion of the Empire. It was priests, not rabbis and imams, who guided the people in the development of Europe's culture from the time of Constantine till the time of Martin Luther.

And the focus of the teachings of the priests was on Jesus Christ. To suggest that it didn't matter whether a clergyman (and the political leaders he influenced) accepted the existence of what St. John called "the Word" (or "the Logos") is to believe that the differences between Christianity and non-Christian religions were small, even trivial. Everything I have read about European history has said that the Europeans believed the differences were great.

Topic drift but yeah I agree with what you are saying. Depending on the course at hand, it is important to know the History of the U.S.A. and how it came about, but also in World History important to know the same about other civilizations. Same deal with contemporary studies. The focus should be on issues relevant to the society in which they/we belong, but should also incorporate a broad view of all humanity, science, literature etc.

[Joebill]

Constantine claimed to be Christian so he could take over the Roman Empire. The Christian beliefs he claimed to have were more lip service than an actual belief.

As for the Vikings, they should be covered, as the rest of the Europeans who came to the Western Hemisphere.

And the Native Americans side should be told as well. Like the guy who helped the Pilgrims grow food. Why did he live with them ? He had been enslaved and taken to England. After several years in England, he finally convinced his slave masters to let him go home. When he got there, his people were gone. They died off from European diseases. In order for him to survive, he had to live with the Pilgrims. A group of people who were living in an empty of people area, his former home. So, that is why he knew so much about the area.

And let us not forget the colonials, in the first winters, stole food from the fields planted by the Native Americans. They didn't trade, nor pay, for it, they stole it.

Who am I ?

I'm Comanche, Cherokee, Scot-Irish, Norman, Viking, Netherlands, German, Swiss, Texan, American. You can call me Jim.

An the Texas School Board is not known for thinking. Even by other Texans.

[kennyc]

Nice astronomy Pic of the day today.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

From the point of view of Texans, it was Columbus who discovered the New World.

Much to the surprise of the roughly ten million(?) people living there, who didn't know that they were missing...

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Nice astronomy Pic of the day today.

I see your moon and raise you a storm.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

I disagree with nguirado's broadly citing the Abrahamic religions as major influences on the West. I say that it was Christianity alone. Constantine became a Christian, not a Jew, and made Christianity the state religion of the Empire. It was priests, not rabbis and imams, who guided the people in the development of Europe's culture from the time of Constantine till the time of Martin Luther.

And it was Christians who tortured and executed women for "witchcraft" based on unsupported claims by their neighbors in order to grab their property, Christians who slaughtered the residents of this land with warfare and disease, stole their homes, desecrated their holy sites, Christians who enslaved the residents of Africa and brought them here to treat like animals, Christians who insisted that a husband can't possibly rape his wife, Christians who declared that skin color decided who you could marry (and later, that gender decided it), and Christians who created Sundown Towns.

By all means, let's make sure Western Civ covers the impact of Christianity on history.

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by Joebill

Constantine claimed to be Christian so he could take over the Roman Empire.

Joebill, that is not correct. Constantine was already the emperor.

His mother was a Christian who persuaded him to have everyone pray to the Christian God prior to a major battle. The Romans won the battle, so Constantine, who was not a religious man, declared Christianity to be the state religion.

[GlennD]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

And it was Christians who tortured and executed women for "witchcraft" based on unsupported claims by their neighbors in order to grab their property, Christians who slaughtered the residents of this land with warfare and disease, stole their homes, desecrated their holy sites, Christians who enslaved the residents of Africa and brought them here to treat like animals, Christians who insisted that a husband can't possibly rape his wife, Christians who declared that skin color decided who you could marry (and later, that gender decided it), and Christians who created Sundown Towns.

By all means, let's make sure Western Civ covers the impact of Christianity on history.

And if you wrote a textbook with this information (all of it true), but neglected to mention that the same crimes had been committed all over the world in the name of different religions and other cultures, you'd be writing exactly the kind of textbook that the Texas board of education is trying to avoid.

Christians don't have a monopoly on bigotry, racism and hatred any more than they have a monopoly on compassion.

[GeoffC]

amen to that !

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by GlennD

And if you wrote a textbook with this information (all of it true), but neglected to mention that the same crimes had been committed all over the world in the name of different religions and other cultures, you'd be writing exactly the kind of textbook that the Texas board of education is trying to avoid.

The earlier claim was that Christian founding of libraries and hospitals should be mentioned, but other religions & cultures doing the same thing should be ignored as not relevant to Western civilization. In the same manner, the conflicts between Islam and Hindu religions are not particularly important to a child in Texas today. However, the Christian oppression of women and subjugation of non-Christian cultures *is* relevant to them; they're dealing with it directly, rather than theoretically as something that happens on the other side of the planet.

Christians don't have a monopoly on bigotry, racism and hatred any more than they have a monopoly on compassion.

No, but their bigotry, racism and hatred is active in modern Texas. Certainly, I wouldn't feel safe being open about my religion if I lived in Texas. Not even in Austin.

I somehow doubt the Texas history books are mentioning that Islam gives the woman the right to divorce at will. The fact that many Islamic cultures make this impractical to impossible doesn't change the religion, just as the fact that the Christian exhortation to "love your neighbor" has often been set aside in favor of lynchings and cross-burnings doesn't mean the religion doesn't include compassion.