Doctorow on the iPad

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Remember that a patent doesn't mean that other people can't use something; it simply means that they have to license it from the patent holder in order to do so.

But if the holder wont license it to anyone then doesnt that becomea pretty irrelevant distinction as it just means that in fact people cant use it?

[kennyc]

Go Daddy ad on the iPAD:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20001997-52.html

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by stustaff

But if the holder wont license it to anyone then doesnt that becomea pretty irrelevant distinction as it just means that in fact people cant use it?

That's true, but HAVE Apple refused to license this?

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by stustaff

where did i say that would be bad please?

Apples right to run their business how they want

I really cant understand why anyone feels Apple should have to do anything else

I support their right to do that

I defend Apples right to manage THEIR store and THEIR product however they want

I could get a dozen more from this thread alone, but I won't because that'd be unnecessary repetition.

Please at least attempt to read your own typing rather than relying on others to copy/paste if for you. Your absolute hatred of good practice and generally smoothly functioning submission is quite clear from your posts.

When did I say I want lower quality apps please?

See the quotes above from your own posts again, and the same comment applies. There is a huge and increasing gap between Apple's practices and good practice - this can, will and does deter good devs from developing for their platform, and arguing in favour of their actions means arguing for lower quality apps.

oh and there are less spammy apps becausethere are less apps

...You missed where I said "apps which are 10's or even 100 on the iPhone store are one app on the Android marketplace".

and that is because android appmarket is so small! money wise.

Looooool. You really don't get the basics of this do you? It's not "so small", app numbers are not a measure of worth and essentially the mobile phone market is as long as the average contract lenght ...the iPhone is less than 20% of even the smart phone market, let along the general mobile phone market which utterly dwarfs it (but of which many will start getting app stores in the next few years as well).

You're repeatedly wrong on the basic numbers, you completely misunderstood open source...you really need to step back and do some research on how other companies handle this. Look at...say...the Nintendo DS's process. 125 million and counting, and software sales which make the iPhone look like the tiny blip it is.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's true, but HAVE Apple refused to license this?

It's not theirs to not-liscence, and they did not reject the app on liscencing grounds, Harry.

Apple sent a letter to the developers noting that the pinch to expand feature is “associated solely with Apple applications.”

Oh and hai Stustaff:

"We were approved but ended up having an inferior product."

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's true, but HAVE Apple refused to license this?

License what?

Again, Apple DOES NOT hold a patent on pinch to zoom.

Originally Posted by stustaff

the harm? let me demonstrate 'the harm' for you.

Many people thing windows is a shit operating system that crashes a lot! and yes it does crash but actually the majority of times its due to software not the OS.
If people side-load software that is buggy or beta style onto a device and then the device starts to crash 'some' people will still blame the device and it may then get a reputation for bring a crash prone buggy device!....

Hm, by the same logic, why not have the government oversee all software, so that nobody side-loads anything, and we all live happy, crash-free and virus-free lives...?

Plus, where exactly did you get your information about Windows crashing "a lot?" It may come as surprise to the majority of large corporations around the world, that they have chosen such a buggy system to run their business on.

Anyway, the point is, Apple wants to keep the App Store a closed system, because “This thing’s going to crest a half a billion, soon. Who knows, maybe it will be a $1 billion marketplace at some point in time.” This is straight from Steve Jobs, about two years ago.

Apple has plans for this closed system, for the App Store, as well as for all the media it plans to sell to you through iTunes.

This is why it's closed. This is why there is no Flash. This is why it will not allow you to develop cross-platform (so you can't sell the same app to Android).

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

I could get a dozen more from this thread alone, but I won't because that'd be unnecessary repetition.

Please at least attempt to read your own typing rather than relying on others to copy/paste if for you. Your absolute hatred of good practice and generally smoothly functioning submission is quite clear from your posts.

You couldnt get a single example of me saying I hate either of those things! your simply lying.
you are basically interpreting what I say incorrectly! NO WHERE have I said that I hate good practices or a smoothly functioning submission.

WHAT I have said seems pretty clear to me, I am in favour of Apples system because that is what Apple want to do! I hate people complaining about how apple choose to manage their store. All of those quotes say exactly that! NONE of them state that I think it is the best way of running the process.

You keep making assumptions and stating your interpratation of what others think! how many times must I say the same thing until you understand?
Do you misread things on purpose? only it happens so frequently and you appear intelligent that I must assume it is intentional.

I HAVE NEVER said that I hate smoothly functioning submissions! I have said I dont mind the way apple do it! that doesnt mean I would hate a smoother clearer version.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

See the quotes above from your own posts again, and the same comment applies. There is a huge and increasing gap between Apple's practices and good practice - this can, will and does deter good devs from developing for their platform, and arguing in favour of their actions means arguing for lower quality apps.

Again your stating a false assertion as if it were fact!

Apples Actions = lower quality apps, that is plain wrong Apple has better apps than Android(of course that too is an opinion but its based on just as much evidence as your 'facts').

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

...You missed where I said "apps which are 10's or even 100 on the iPhone store are one app on the Android marketplace".

No, no I didnt. and by the way I much prefer the choice of 100 apps on iphone to the 1 app on android...

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Looooool. You really don't get the basics of this do you? It's not "so small", app numbers are not a measure of worth and essentially the mobile phone market is as long as the average contract lenght ...the iPhone is less than 20% of even the smart phone market, let along the general mobile phone market which utterly dwarfs it (but of which many will start getting app stores in the next few years as well).

You're repeatedly wrong on the basic numbers, you completely misunderstood open source...you really need to step back and do some research on how other companies handle this. Look at...say...the Nintendo DS's process. 125 million and counting, and software sales which make the iPhone look like the tiny blip it is.

Yet the iphone process took 5% out of the DS games sales in less than one year and continues to do so! the apple system over the last year increased their share of the handheld games market by 14% Nintendo's process reduced their share by 5%

Which is the better process? the only reason the DS has 70% is because of the number of years it has been around! Apples process is rapidly closing that gap.

Smartphone market Apple has 50% thats pretty significant

Highlights from the February 2010 AdMob Mobile Metrics Report include:

· iPhone OS increased its share of smartphone requests from 33 percent in February 2009 to 50 percent in February 2010.

· Symbian's share of smartphone requests fell from 43 percent in February 2009 to 18 percent in February 2010.

· Android increased its share from two percent in February 2009 to 24 percent in February 2010.

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Hm, by the same logic, why not have the government oversee all software, so that nobody side-loads anything, and we all live happy, crash-free and virus-free lives...?

I dont trust the goverment
Seriously though your 'logic' is pretty poor I am happy that I have the CHOICE that was my whole point I want to be able to choose a device that CANT sideload apps and I defend apples right to do that. if they were the goverment or a monopoly then I wouldnt approve of it!
Lets do what many seem to want and ask the goverment to force apple to allow side loading

Originally Posted by Sonist

Plus, where exactly did you get your information about Windows crashing "a lot?" It may come as surprise to the majority of large corporations around the world, that they have chosen such a buggy system to run their business on.

Well firstly I never said that so I didnt get 'THAT' from anywhere you are trying to put words in my mouth!
What i did say was "Many people thing windows is a shit operating system that crashes a lot!" and thats true they do! I never said it was or that they were right but that the perception exists for many people and its frequently other software that causes those crashes.

Originally Posted by Sonist

Anyway, the point is, Apple wants to keep the App Store a closed system, because “This thing’s going to crest a half a billion, soon. Who knows, maybe it will be a $1 billion marketplace at some point in time.” This is straight from Steve Jobs, about two years ago.

Apple has plans for this closed system, for the App Store, as well as for all the media it plans to sell to you through iTunes.

This is why it's closed. This is why there is no Flash. This is why it will not allow you to develop cross-platform (so you can't sell the same app to Android).

And where exactly is teh problem with any of that? if they are wrong and people dont like the result then apple will do poorly and Jobs will get ousted!

however it seems like both their profits and share in all markets is going up. Is taht why people are so bothered about what Apple are doing? because they are being successful.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by stustaff

WHAT I have said seems pretty clear to me, I am in favour of Apples system because that is what Apple want to do!

Then you are against good practice and a smoothly functioning system, because Apple simply does not have them and is moving away from them.

Your words amply illustrate which side you're on. There are no "assumptions", this is what you have posted. If you don't mean it, don't post it. It's really that simple.

how many times must I say the same thing until you understand?

I understand perfectly. Apple is your alpha and omega. I get it!

Yet the iphone process took 5% out of the DS games sales in less than one year and continues to do so!

...

DS game sales rose, in a recession. You're comparing the entire app store to the DS game sales. This is a bluntly dishonest comparison.

Smartphone market Apple has 50% thats pretty significant

That's the US market. On the world market, they have 17%. There is more to the world than the USA.

The only lies around here are from you, because you refuse to acknowledge the consequences of what you call for. Apple's practices are generating lower quality apps, supporting this means you are too. Black and white.

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by stustaff

however it seems like both their profits and share in all markets is going up.

Sigh.

As I said, you are not aware of the basic facts... (and of course, apple's decision to patent troll rather than to compete in the marketplace is notable)

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Then you are against good practice and a smoothly functioning system, because Apple simply does not have them and is moving away from them.

Your words amply illustrate which side you're on. There are no "assumptions", this is what you have posted. If you don't mean it, don't post it. It's really that simple.

I HAVE NEVER POSTED THAT.. come on its not hard I simply havent. not a single one of my comments that you quoted said I was against those practices not a single one! You seem to think that because I approve of someones RIGHT to do that that it means I am in favour of it. and your wrong!

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

I understand perfectly. Apple is your alpha and omega. I get it!

Yes thats right because i like their product and defend tehir right to operate in any manner they choose(assuming its not outright illegal) that means I love them.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

DS game sales rose, in a recession. You're comparing the entire app store to the DS game sales. This is a bluntly dishonest comparison.

dishonest? both sales figures are for software sold on the devices! Im not sure that any of us would be able to break those down into game or non game? eg the nintendo DS recipe book 'game' and their pedometer fitness 'game' were both heavily marketed in the UK at least and are in their figures so really we arent going to get a better comparison than the one I used.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

That's the US market. On the world market, they have 17%. There is more to the world than the USA.

fair point but the point still holds that Apple have entered a new market for them USING these practices and are getting more and more worldwide share than they had say 2 years ago.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

The only lies around here are from you, because you refuse to acknowledge the consequences of what you call for. Apple's practices are generating lower quality apps, supporting this means you are too. Black and white.

no because you have no evidence to show that this is even the case! that apples practices are generating lower quality apps is pure conjecture!
IN fact im going to say its a lie!(or at oleast only your opinion) you choose whichever authority you like that rates apps and I will bet that the top scoring app in over 50% of the categories was produced in the last 6 months thus showing that the quality is INCREASING with Apples process in place.

[DawnFalcon]

Yes you have, Every time you have defended Apple's right to do precisely as they like, you have defended their erratic, unwieldy and dev-hostile submissions process. Your refusal to admit that Apple can do any wrong is getting to the point of being amusing, I must say.

And of course it's dishonest to compare all sales on the iPhone to the sales of games on the DS, and then claim that Apple "increased their share of the handheld games market". You have to break out the Apple iStore game sales before you can say this!

And as Apple entered, now Android has. The current trends are turning very much in Android's favour.


"that apples practices are generating lower quality apps is pure conjecture! "

Not it is not. You are not reading my posts, and it's getting pathetic.

To repeat from post #335: "We were approved but ended up having an inferior product."

I believe your pants are on fire. I have explained why they're getting lower quality apps, and that is an actual example. Apple are not LG Paladins, get over them.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by stustaff

.... it seems like both their profits and share in all markets is going up. Is taht why people are so bothered about what Apple are doing? because they are being successful.

Yeah, this must be it.

Just like there is no Flash on the iPhone/iPad because Flash crashes computers and because Adobe is lazy.

Phew....

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

Yes you have, Every time you have defended Apple's right to do precisely as they like, you have defended their erratic, unwieldy and dev-hostile submissions process. Your refusal to admit that Apple can do any wrong is getting to the point of being amusing, I must say.

so if I defend everyones right to free speech, I automatically agree with someone who says Capital punishment is a good thing?
your being ridiculous, although you are consistent your logic is again just well wrong.

Im defending their right to operate how they like it doesnt mean I agree. However I do believe as a whole the way they act is in large part responsible for the success they have clearly had.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And of course it's dishonest to compare all sales on the iPhone to the sales of games on the DS, and then claim that Apple "increased their share of the handheld games market". You have to break out the Apple iStore game sales before you can say this!

but i DIDNT! i neither broke out apples non game apps OR the DS non game apps! I treated both exactly the same. I should have said 'software' I guess but I was quoting an article and the fact is both platforms include non game items in their figures.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

And as Apple entered, now Android has. The current trends are turning very much in Android's favour.

"that apples practices are generating lower quality apps is pure conjecture! "

Not it is not. You are not reading my posts, and it's getting pathetic.

To repeat from post #335: "We were approved but ended up having an inferior product."

I did read that and in no way is that proof that applications are getting lower in quality! there are other apps which have improved over the last 6 months. we could never really prove this either way however in general I stand by the fact that an independent reviewer of apps will have awarder higher scores in general in teh last 6 months than the 6 months preceding.

Originally Posted by DawnFalcon

I believe your pants are on fire. I have explained why they're getting lower quality apps, and that is an actual example. Apple are not LG Paladins, get over them.

You have given one example of an app that ITS developer (hardy impartial) believe is worse and see my point earlier.

my pants are on fire? well Im from the same part of the world as you and i have no idea what that means?

[kennyc]

Yeah, like this:

http://www.mactropolis.com/apple-new...in-q1-of-2009/