just because you have written a book does not make you an author

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by moonshot

I think you will find that you are referring to second hand goods; if I buy something new, I want a guarantee.



That makes sense. I would rather buy a badly written book rather than a badly build house as well.

But why should badly written books that I would have to pay for be allowed through the net, where as badly build houses should not?



That's good. And it works for you. But what is your objection for not categorising vanity ebooks, or do you not have one?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor

Generally, caveat emptor is the contract law principle that controls the sale of real property after the date of closing, but may also apply to sales of other goods.

The phrase caveat emptor arises from the fact that buyers often have less information about the good or service they are purchasing, while the seller has more information. Defects in the good or service may be hidden from the buyer, and only known to the seller. Thus, the buyer should beware. This is called information asymmetry.

I am not saying books should not come with a guarantee. Many do as I am sure you know. Many (most older) houses don't. Only in some places is there a government enforced guarantee on a new condo for example and it only covers specific areas such as the building envelope.

I have no objection to any form of categorizing of books although I personally add my own. And I like to think that I am able to sort out most of the crap but this is probably due to being much older and having eclectic but established tastes. 70% of the books I read, whether bought or borrowed are by authors I have read and enjoyed before. The 3 or four books a month I read by new to me authors are rarely disappointing. Does happen, but in the last 3 years I have read more than 600 ebooks and about 30 I have more or less abandoned.

one or more of those books was recommended by a good friend whose tastes I generally share. Well written, high critical acclaim, I just found it made me sad to the point of discomfort. An several authors I have enjoyed for years killed of the wrong person (IMO) and I am unwilling to read farther.


Just curious, what proportion of the books you have paid good money for have been unenjoyable? Maybe libraries don't work for you but I am thinking that they could if you have access to a reasonable one. And as I said before, Overdrive only carries books that a reasonable percentage of the population will borrow. Few Indies and no vanity press AFAIK, although this does not mean those books are not worthwhile. And I don't use Goodreads, but I think they have some merit, and Fantastic Fiction is a very good resource, and literature map as well.

There may be some return guarantees from some venders, and experience, recommendations, looking inside the book, can guarantee certain qualities, but there are no absolute guarantees you will like a book or that there is absolutely nothing seriously wrong with a house or car etc.


Helen

[speakingtohe]

Originally Posted by tompe

So structural problems in a house is not a problem either because you only suffer if you are stupid enough not to return the house.

I mean I can wait 10 year with reading a book and the shop might not exist.

I have actually never heard of anyone being able to return a house. Sure if you do not pay your mortgage they bank will foreclose but you do not get any money back and may still have to pay more. Only guarantees in house buying are that some problems may be fixed if the seller/builder is still in business etc.


Helen

[LovesMacs]

Originally Posted by typatterson67

thank you Harry. John Lescroart made an excellent point on Twitter a month back.

for most authors, Piracy is not the issue. Obscurity is.

that's all the more of an issue for us SP authors

I would venture to say I'd agree that obscurity is a big enough problem for most traditionally-published authors, let alone self-published ones. There are so many authors and titles now, and few of them benefit from the full marketing might of the top 5 or 6 companies--even those authors who are published by them.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by moonshot

Then it would be a good idea to somehow separate the 'author' who has spent some extra time, effort and money to get their book professionally edited etc. as typatterson67 did from the 'author' who has typed a few hundred pages and clicked it up to Amazon and stuck a price tag on it.

Aside from the various other comments (that there are already many ways to achieve this separation, pick the one you want), trying to change the accepted definition of the word "author" is neither necessary nor practical. It is not going to happen, not even if you hold your breath and stamp your foot.

[moonshot]

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor
Generally, caveat emptor is the contract law principle that controls the sale of real property after the date of closing, but may also apply to sales of other goods. Helen

I think homes are a long way from books but maybe the principle s the same. Also maybe thing differ depending on what side of the pond you live.

If I buy a new house it will come with a guarantee. If it is not new then it does not have a guarantee but most people pay for a survey and valuation (their insurance) and if they have a mortgage the lender will not grant the mortgage without this.

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

but there are no absolute guarantees you will like a book

I know, I am struggling with a new book that has had a lot of five star reviews.

But I still believe that to be good at your chosen trade you need to work at it; and yes some people have a hidden talent just waiting to be released, but for most people talent needs to be worked at to improve.

Anyone can cut your hair and it will look shorter once it's done. But I'm sure most people would rather know that the person about to do the cutting has some sort of skill at doing this. Same with people who write and charge for their work.

[moonshot]

Originally Posted by gmw

It is not going to happen, not even if you hold your breath and stamp your foot
.

I've just tried it and nothing has changed, so I guess you are right about that.

But I guess I am fighting a loosing battle on this site, to many people, I guess have a vested interest in not wanting to change things.

I bit like me going onto a religious site stating that there is no God.

[DiapDealer]

The only thing I'm sure of is that your analogies are getting as tired as they are weak. I think people should have to take a course and receive certification in order to be allowed to employ analogies in a discussion (max limit of two per thread). The internet would be a better place for it.

"For less than the price of a cup of coffee per day, you too can help slow the propagation of Incessant Analogies Syndrome on the internet. Won't you please help?"

Originally Posted by moonshot

I've just tried it and nothing has changed, so I guess you are right about that.

But I guess I am fighting a loosing battle on this site, to many people, I guess have a vested interest in not wanting to change things.

I bit like me going onto a religious site stating that there is no God.

Of course it never occurred to you that you're simply wrong. Much easier to assume there's some sort of unnatural bias afflicting us all.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Of course it never occurred to you that you're simply wrong. Much easier to assume there's some sort of unnatural bias afflicting us all.

Maybe he's right. I did see some blurring of the Fraunhofer Lines some time ago... it seems books have been written about it already in the past.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by moonshot

[...]But I guess I am fighting a loosing battle on this site, to many people, I guess have a vested interest in not wanting to change things.[...]

You have made that accusation multiple times in this thread, and yet I see no reason for it. Yes, there are self-published authors here - I'm one. But I don't think we are in the majority, not even in the majority of those responding to this thread.

My responses have nothing to do with my being an author, they have to do with language. "Author" has an accepted meaning, you can find it in many different books available in hardcover (so that should make you happy), and you're not going to change that meaning with a few forum posts.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Maybe he's right. I did see some blurring of the Fraunhofer Lines some time ago... it seems books have been written about it already in the past.

Sorry. I don't consider a couple of hundred pages with sciencey-type stuff typed on them "books."

[QuantumIguana]

Originally Posted by moonshot

I've just tried it and nothing has changed, so I guess you are right about that.

But I guess I am fighting a loosing battle on this site, to many people, I guess have a vested interest in not wanting to change things.

You keep trotting out that ad hominem, but it's not going to work any better. If authors were the only ones who claimed that if you wrote a book you were an author and that people really wanted self-published books to carry a scarlet letter, then we would expect that your position would be the dominant one. There would be little or no demand for self-published books. Yet your position is the fringe position. The e-book retailers wouldn't be so interested in selling self-published books if there wasn't a market for them.

You keep ignoring important points:

Don't critics provide valuable input into what books might be good?

Don't reviews provide valuable input into what books might be good?

Don't sales figures provide valuable input into what books might be good - at least they tell you a lot of people liked them.

Don't awards tell you what books might be good?

Doesn't word of mouth tell you what books might be good?

If you've used the above tools to point you do a book doesn't the blurb give you valuable input into whether or not the book is good?

If you're still interested after reading the blurb, doesn't the free sample give you valuable input into what books might be good?

If you've gone far enough to pay for the book, doesn't the fact that you can return it for a refund alleviate your concerns that you can't get your money back?

With all these tools at your disposal, is it really true that you just can't tell what might be good from what might be bad? If so, then perhaps "Fun with Dick and Jane" is more on your level. Oh, I don't seriously think that your level is really so low, I don't think you really have such terrible problems finding books to read. But then what's the fuss? Does it simply offend you that these unapproved books are out there, that no one asked you for permission for them to be offered for sale?

I bit like me going onto a religious site stating that there is no God.

It's more like going onto a math forum and insisting that 2+2=5.

[DiapDealer]

Psst!

Spoiler:

Maximum Analogous Thread Content reached pages ago. Do you want to get fined?

[din155]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

The only thing I'm sure of is that your analogies are getting as tired as they are weak. I think people should have to take a course and receive certification in order to be allowed to employ analogies in a discussion (max limit of two per thread). The internet would be a better place for it.

"For less than the price of a cup of coffee per day, you too can help slow the propagation of Incessant Analogies Syndrome on the internet. Won't you please help?"

Why not have a sticky thread with all the analogies used already and a counter that tells how many times these have been used already. Coffee fund can be used to maintain the counter and thread on Mobileread.

[moonshot]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Of course it never occurred to you that you're simply wrong. Much easier to assume there's some sort of unnatural bias afflicting us all.

Wrong about what? I have a point of view, you don't like my point of view. You have your own view....I am no more wrong than you are.

Originally Posted by gmw

My responses have nothing to do with my being an author,

Of course they don't.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

"Author" has an accepted meaning, you can find it in many different books available in hardcover (so that should make you happy), and you're not going to change that meaning with a few forum posts.

A few posts, we are over 300 and counting. Not bad.

It is only my view point; you would think by some of the response here that I 'was' going to change things next week.

[DiapDealer]

I never said that last bit. Why did you attribute that quote to me? Do you not proofread your responses before posting?