Seriously thoughtful Unbelievable! (not allowed to show the flag)

[omk3]

Well, what I saw, having read all the posts, is this:

Bilbo said what he thought astra actually meant by his 'demagogy' comment. Even if the wording of the translation could be more polite, that is the meaning I got from it too.

Recluse then re-translated astra's comment, and even if it was in answer to Bilbo, it was actually referring to the people talking before. One of them was me, one of them was Moejoe. So I take it that we were called non-entities.

Dropping words like 'demagogy' or 'non-entity' doesn't serve to prove any point.

I'm just clarifying here for Am and anyone else who wonders.

I don't want to fight with anyone. I don't think it's worth it. This feels a lot like kindergarten (he said, she said, he called me ..., and so on). Bye now.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by omk3

Well, what I saw, having read all the posts, is this:

Bilbo said what he thought astra actually meant by his 'demagogy' comment. Even if the wording of the translation could be more polite, that is the meaning I got from it too.

Recluse then re-translated astra's comment, and even if it was in answer to Bilbo, it was actually referring to the people talking before. One of them was me, one of them was Moejoe. So I take it that we were called non-entities.

Dropping words like 'demagogy' or 'non-entity' doesn't serve to prove any point.

I'm just clarifying here for Am and anyone else who wonders.

I don't want to fight with anyone. I don't think it's worth it. This feels a lot like kindergarten (he said, she said, he called me ..., and so on). Bye now.

Ditto.

Recluse's comment was a thinly-veiled attack not at what Bilbo was saying, but at what was said beforehand. Very sneaky.

EDIT: and I did read all posts, here's how it went.

ASTRA - Nonsensical meandering insult about discussion, veiled insults to those discussing. Attempts to re-paint those who are pro-flag/patriotism as victims and as being shouted out by other voices.

KINDLEKITTEN - Agreement.

BILBO - Angry barb in response to the nonsensical insult, re-painting.

RECLUSE - Sneaky comment.

OMK3 - Reaction to sneaky comment.

ME - Reaction to sneaky comment. Screw you. Blockage!

RECLUSE - Clarification.

AM - Why can't we all just get along, and also, learn how to read dumbos.

OMK3 - Clarification.

ME - Agreement and extrapolation.

[recluse]

Well, that was interesting.
They have uncovered my evil plan using their psychic powers, but it is too late! I know all their secrets and soon the Resistance will fall before my evil Capitalist army!
For I am Dick Cheney, Son of Satan!

BOO!

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by recluse

Well, that was interesting.
They have uncovered my evil plan using their psychic powers, but it is too late! I know all their secrets and soon the Resistance will fall before my evil Capitalist army!
For I am Dick Cheney, Son of Satan!

BOO!

Your attempts at humour can't cover up what was revealed of your character long ago. Keep trying though, you may fool some of the people here, but not I. Remember Recluse, I was one of the few people involved in that earlier thread who saw what you wrote before it was erased by a moderator, and before your 'apologies'.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by omk3

I'm just clarifying here for Am and anyone else who wonders.

Thank you

Originally Posted by Moejoe

AM - Why can't we all just get along, and also, learn how to read dumbos.

the learn to read comment was directed at myself

[recluse]

Hey, I tried to mend some bridges. I'm willing to admit I've made mistakes in the past and have tried to make amends. This time, my hands are clean.
Peace, MoeJoe.
And speaking from personal experience, paranoia kills. Get help.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

I'll translate the above quotes for our international membership:

"I disagree with certain people in this thread, but I do not have the intellectual capacity to cogently argue with them"

that was snipey and uncalled for. most of this thread has remained civilized, you do not need to stoop to this type of tactic

[happy_terd]

edit:

I like this site. I like the majority of the people on this site. I like the mod team.

I guess I got more to lose than some people. I am editing my comment out of respect for the things and people that do matter to me.

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

I'll translate the above quotes for our international membership:

"I disagree with certain people in this thread, but I do not have the intellectual capacity to cogently argue with them"

Originally Posted by recluse

Are you the only one stroking your ego or do you pay people to do it?

The correct translation is "We don't have to sink to their level because, outside the protection of the Forums, they are nonentities."

Refrain from any insults please. Life's too short to waste time with such unnecessary wrangles.

This is the second warning here and there won't be a third other than closing this thread.

Michael
(moderator)

ps:

Originally Posted by recluse

My apologies.

Your apology was perceived.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

I'll translate the above quotes for our international membership:

"I disagree with certain people in this thread, but I do not have the intellectual capacity to cogently argue with them"

You only prove my point.
It is so easy to snipe at people from a warm and comfy chair when they do the "dirty job", so you can sit in the chair and snipe at them. While I realise that not everyone is capable or able to do the "dirty job", you might think that they would realise that a bit of appreciation and respect is due, however, their intellectual capacity has no boundaries*.

* "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

— Elbert Hubbard

[Bilbo1967]

Originally Posted by astra

You only prove my point.
It is so easy to snipe at people from a warm and comfy chair when they do the "dirty job", so you can sit in the chair and snipe at them. While I realise that not everyone is capable or able to do the "dirty job", you might think that they would realise that a bit of appreciation and respect is due, however, their intellectual capacity has no boundaries*.

* "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

— Elbert Hubbard

Quite possibly the most non-sensical post of the year so far.

This thread was about the right of people to fly flags. Is flying a flag a 'dirty job' now? Your second sentence makes no kind of sense whatsoever and, to top it all, you then end with a quote which directly contradicts what you were probably trying to say!

Good effort!

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by astra

You only prove my point.
It is so easy to snipe at people from a warm and comfy chair when they do the "dirty job", so you can sit in the chair and snipe at them. While I realise that not everyone is capable or able to do the "dirty job", you might think that they would realise that a bit of appreciation and respect is due, however, their intellectual capacity has no boundaries*.

* "Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped."

— Elbert Hubbard

Firstly what point? You don't seem to have one whenever you actually make a statement, not ever. Not once. Your statements are borderline comprehensible, and now you've gone to the edge of comprehension with this one. I've been trying to decipher exactly what you mean for the last twenty five minutes and I'm stumped. Seriously, we need some kind of forensic expert to get to the bottom of this one.

I think I'll have a crack at it though, because from the tone I'm getting it's one of those 'How dare you have a go at something you won't do yourself' kind of sentiments. Otherwise known as the 'white feather argument' (roughly translated, cowards don't get to have a voice).

What is the 'dirty job' and who is doing said job, and why has that any relevance to this discussion? Unless said dirty job is soldiering? Is that what you mean? Are the 'soldiers' those who do the dirty job that we are criticizing from the sidelines or our 'comfy chairs' (mine isn't so comfortable, I'm waiting for a new one on delivery). Is this dirty job something in your eyes that is essential to what....peace, society. Should we respect these 'doers of the dirty jobs' that are never explained, pointed out or identified?

If the 'dirty job' is soldiering, then you're right to call it a dirty job. It's a filthy occupation where men and women, sons and daughters, husbands and wives are trained to murder in the name of country and freedom without question. For me this kind of unquestioning willingness to kill is a form of psychosis, the same blind faith that drives people to salute pieces of cloth hanging from poles, shoot at pregnant women and drop bombs on civilians.

From my not-so-comfy chair I will continue to criticize the actions of blind patriots and worshippers at the feet of the cults of country and flag. I'll continue to be 'inactive' and never pick up the gun and the bullet. My deed is unwillingness to fight for the causes of the rich. My deed is refusal to blindly take orders. My deed is to always raise my voice in the face of patriots and in the honour not of soldiers but of the millions of innocent dead put to rest with bombs, bullets and starvation.

My respect, my appreciation is reserved only for the victims of these ridiculous wars, never the perpetrator. But I do have heroes.

My heroes don't have guns, they're the children left orphaned by American and British bombs that burned the skies of Bagdhad so many years ago it seems impossible. They're the driver of a SUV who stopped to help a wounded young photographer, who then in turn was cut to ribbons by the laughing patriots kilometres away safe in their multi-million dollar war play machine. My heroes are the women and the struggling families in the occupied countries of Afghanistan and Iraq, who despite years and years of abuse, wake each morning and try to do the best for their children. My heroes are the mothers and the fathers of dead soldiers who wake now, this very morning, wondering what comfort a flag will give them when they no longer have their children.

You can't salute death. There is no pride in a coffin. There is no country six feet deep.

[omk3]

Originally Posted by astra

Unfortunately, there is a lot of demagogy in this topic, and people who actually care and do something about it are being criticised.

Astra, I wish you used real arguments to defend your views instead of dropping provocative catchphrases. I hope you see that it was this post that sparked the renewed animosity in this thread.

Your point is not clear at all, except that you resent things that were said above your post. Why didn't you try to answer them, instead of calling them demagogic? Not out of fear of being criticised I hope. If we are going to have freedom of speech, we have to have freedom to criticise. You can't have the one without the other.

Unless your argument was that if we can't keep calm in the face of provocative comments, how do we pretend that a society can keep calm without resorting to arms? If so, interesting point. But I really don't want to make the effort to second-guess you. Please state your arguments clearly.

Anyway, I've never been called a demagogue, or a non-entity before. I find it highly amusing. But as it doesn't serve the purpose of an honest discussion, and as it's obvious that not only can't we all agree (I knew that of course), but we don't even like listening to opposing views, I don't think it does any good to continue talk on this matter. We know where everyone stands, and that's where we'll all remain.

[astra]

Originally Posted by omk3

Anyway, I've never been called a demagogue, or a non-entity before

You, personally, probably not.
However, as people, Europe was called demagogues long time ago, when they cowardly attempted to appease Hitler on behalf of a few disposable nations.
Europe is repeating the same mistake? now. Although, I am not sure it can be called a mistake. Because they never believed there was a mistake. They even have a scape goat right now and hope nothing will happen to them, if they feed the monster.
This is the source of all peace loving speeches and well crafted posts here, while other people shed their blood to defend fragile peace we have now and the very freedom to say what we say without fear to be executed. People who might not be as intellectually developed as those who spend their time for fun in front of computers, they just defend us.

My previous post was not about the flag. It was a general rant about many issues that were risen in this topic.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by astra

You, personally, probably not.
However, as people, Europe was called demagogues long time ago, when they cowardly attempted to appease Hitler on behalf of a few disposable nations.
Europe is repeating the same mistake? now. Although, I am not sure it can be called a mistake. Because they never believed there was a mistake. They even have a scape goat right now and hope nothing will happen to them, if they feed the monster.
This is the source of all peace loving speeches and well crafted posts here, while other people shed their blood to defend fragile peace we have now. People who might not be as intellectually developed as those who spend their time for fun in front of computers, they just defend us.

My previous post was not about the flag. It was a general rant about many issues that were risen in this topic.

Are you serious? Have you read anything about the so-called wars in the middle east? Do you know the history of these conflicts, the amount of money spent by America on training the very same people they're now supposedly fighting against? You're describing the same lies that are fed to you without question, regurgitating the same fears about some muslo-fascist takeover of the world (believe me, it'll be an eagle not a crescent when fascism does arrive on our shores). The same whipped up bullshit that these warmongering killers used to get us into these forever wars in the first place is now used to give weight to these pointless excursions in the sand. This isn't about peace it's about power as all wars are. This is about money and oil pipelines and religious fervour wrapped in patriotism. This is about civilians of all stripes dying because rich men want to be richer than they already are.

For decades the IRA bombed and murdered civilians in both Ireland and the mainland UK. These terrorists were supported vocally by America and many religious zealots across the world. Tit-for-tat, bombing spawned bombing, shooting spawned shooting, catholic vs protestant, nothing changed until someone sat them around a table and made them talk.

Talk.

Discussion.

Compromise.

Peace-loving speeches.

No guns involved, no macho bulslhit gung-ho John Wayne hoo-ra about freeing the world.

There is no peace to be gained under the boots of a soldier. All you'll ever find there is trampled flowers.