The Vent and Rant Thread

[Katsunami]

Dell got back to me.

"A defective keyboard is not covered by warranty. Such defects are always caused by the customer. We can only send you a new keyboard. They cost €45. Shipment costs are €30."

This is absurd. *THIS is a €2500 workstation class business laptop, you *** moron! It is in use 6-10 hours a day!*

History Lattitude E6500 (2008-2016):
- Broken screen (no image): 1x
- Broken bezel: 3x (and now, out of warranty, it's broken again in 2 places)
- Broken keyboard: 1x
- Failed hard drive: 1x
(All fixed under warranty)

History Dell Precision 7510:
- Torn back cover (out of the box): 1x (fixed under warranty)
- Failed SSD: 1x (fixed under warranty)
- Broken keyboard: 1x (refuse to fix)

And no, I don't handle my laptops like an idiot. They're in a laptop bag, and get handled normally; they only get used A LOT. That's the reason why I buy business class laptops.

I've already told them this will be my second and last laptop. I've also told them I'm going to file a complaint with the Dutch consumer authority ACM. I will order the keyboard myself, and as soon as something breaks that I can't fix on my own, both the Lattitude and the Precision are going to be thrown in the junk.

I still have a desktop computer, which has fallen into disuse because I've been using the laptop so much, but I think I'll be returning to my old setup: a €1500 desktop that can last 8 years, (including gaming with a GPU-upgrade after 4 years) with a €750 low-end business class laptop as a backup.

I blame the fact that Dell first moved their production from Ireland to Poland, and then from Poland to China. I hate the fact that Lenovo bought the IBM Thinkpad line... and that brand is in China as well. The current T and W-type laptops are nothing compared to the old Thinkpad T and W's.

Read only if you're interested in the current state of affairs in the acoustic piano world...

Spoiler:

Every time something moves to China, I see a marked drop in quality, of not managed and overseen by a European, Japanese, or American company. In piano-land, people even advise to buy only these brands (in Europe) when going new:

- Steinway (Germany / USA)
- C. Bechstein / Bechstein and Blüthner (Germany)
- Grotrian-Steinweg (Germany)
- Bösendorfer (Austria)
- Kawai & Yamaha (Japan)
- Petrof & August Förster (Czech Republic)
- Fazioli (Italy / Canada)

Why? Often, the brand still pretends to be a European manufacturer, with a European (German/Austrian) website and an elaborate history, but they're nothing more than a name owned by a huge Chinese company, mainly Pearl River. They just put German names on generic piano's; sometimes they just make the names up.

If you HAVE to have a new piano and can't afford a 'real' European, American or Asian one (like, as in built there), these are the brands recommended in Europe. These are all built in China, but in a factory of one of the European/Asian sellers:

- Boston, Essex (Steinway)
- W.Hoffmann (Bechstein)
- Eterna (Yamaha)
- There's also a brand owned by Kawai, built in Indonesia; forgot the name.
- Rösler (Petrof)
- Rönish (Blüthner)
- Perzina (Dutch (!), seems to be well regarded)

There might be others... and, of course, the second hand piano's of brands from before when they became stencil brands and/or owned by a Chinese company, such as Feurich, Seiler, Schimmel.... and many others.

Why does it matter? Because it seems most, if not all piano's produced in China (mostly by Pearl River) are below par with regard to quality, durability, and tone... and it's said Pearl River produces over 75% (!) of all the piano's sold in the world.

The same is also true for Samick and Young Chang (South Korea), who basically do the same as Pearl River.

The most shocking thing is the fact that one of the very highest status symbols in China at the moment is to own a European piano. They don't even want their own stuff... and to be honest, I think that's sad.

[Katsunami]

- Ordered a new keyboard for the laptop through an e-bay seller in the US. Including $15 shipping, the keyboard comes down to $39.50, which is €33.89. That's about €12 less than the keyboard ordered through DELL, and they want another €30 shipping on top of that. *** you.

I could have ordered a keyboard for €18 including shipping, but they were used, and/or badly described (not sure if backlit, for example), sent from China; this one comes from a US seller, has 94 keyboards sold in the last month, and has good pictures and descriptions, so I just assume it's OK. I don't want to end up with the wrong layout, without backlight, or a keyboard that has been worked on already.

After I replace this keyboard, this laptop will be my last workstation class laptop.

I still have a desktop. Currently it has a i7 6700K, 32GB of RAM, an Nvme SSD, 4 TB of storage, and a GTX 1070 for gaming. It's less than a year old, but hasn't been used that much. Seeing that my previous 2008 computer served very well after an upgrade after 4 years (E8500 -> Q9550, 8GB RAM, HDD -> SSD, 2TB HDD, 9600GT -> GTX 560Ti), still served very well a year ago apart for gaming, I guess this one will run for 8 years as well, especially because I don't game that much anymore.

I'm going to update the software and use it a my main computer again, and relegate laptop use to the sidelines, backup, or if I really need a computer somewhere else. My next laptop will be a €600 one, with the only requirement of it having a matte screen.

===

- Called the bank again after finding out the payment got through. Layout problem in the webshop... because of my screen being at 150%, the information about the payment was pushed way down below a very long column.

Imagine a very.... very... looong.... menu on the left, a short block on the right, and content in the middle. The payment information in the invoice was pushed from the middle column below the very long menu.

No matter. Had very good experiences with this webshop (security camera equipment), great customer service. It still gets reviews, the last one being a week ago, and it scores 9.5/10. The only thing I need is a €20 power adapter. (My father blew it up... fiddling with the cables, for some reason, and connected both ends of the same cable to two of the outputs...) I've sent an e-mail to ask if the product was sent out already. I know this shop is a one or two man gig, so I'm guessing he's just slow because of vacation time.

===

What a crap day this has turned out to be.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

I'm getting fed up with people and technology in such a big way I can't even describe it.

(snippage)

- People on a piano-forum that start out with.... "I get a disability stipend / am on a low fixed pension / on welfare" (or whatever) "and I'm looking to pick up piano playing again. I'm looking for <piano desires>"

*describes a f*** concert grand in the league of a Bösendorfer or Steinway*

You trolling?

And I'm being told I'm not nice when I tell those people bluntly that they'd be better of looking at a €650 Kawai ES110 / Roland FP-30 or a €1500-1700 Kawai ES8 / Roland FP-90. You can't swing anything more than a €500-2000 instrument if you're not working at least a mid-level job (or saved money while working in the past). Even then, you probably can't swing a €100.000 piano to practice "Happy Birthday."

(smile) I see that type of thing everywhere. Whether it's cars or makeup or whatever, people constantly put forth all these reasons why they can't spend X, and then ask for "anybody got X at my price?" Maybe it's a form of haggling, rather than denial or wishful thinking?

Although we get it, at the biz, too. I had a guy recently who called me (when we hadn't responded to his email in, like, 15 WHOLE minutes....apparently, all these good folks think I'm sitting around, just waiting for the phone to ring--no doubt in that dark basement in my parent's house, while I munch on hotpockets, or whatever...) and instructed me, before he hung up to "give [him my] best price," because he was price-shopping.

Oh, man, YOU GOT ME! Busted! I was just about to give you my HIGHEST price! /not. I mean, as I told him on the line, "we always do." And I do.

What do people think? I don't get that. I have lost track of the "I'm on Social Security/disability/broke," emails. Oh, I have one, right now--a guy we did a book for in 2011, who just told me that he's been declared bankrupt. Uh....okay, but, what does he think I'm supposed to do with that? I have employees that want to NOT be bankrupt, too.

On one hand, I really do think it's a form of denial. "Oh, I can't afford that Ferrari Daytona, but maybe some little old lady from Miami has a used one for $10,000.00." Or it's wishful thinking "oh, gosh, maybe that perfect car and babe magnet is out there, just waiting for me to find it, abandoned, in an old lady's barn..." Or something. I like a bargain as much as the next guy (and really, who doesn't realize that the "it fell off a truck" marketplace of eBay doesn't thrive on just that very thing?), but I don't assume that I'm going to find some magical deal that will fulfill my wishlist at 10% of the price. That's just...crazy talk. Hell, if someone called me up, offering my dream car (assuming I had one) for $10K, I'd assume I was on Candid Camera or Punked or whatever today's version of that is.

(sigh). You ever notice, we should change the name of this thread? From "V&R" to "People Suck?" lol.

Hitch

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Hitch

(smile) I see that type of thing everywhere. Whether it's cars or makeup or whatever, people constantly put forth all these reasons why they can't spend X, and then ask for "anybody got X at my price?" Maybe it's a form of haggling, rather than denial or wishful thinking?

Don't know. I know I'd love to own a Bösendorfer, C. Bechstein or Blüthner or a huge Kawai (not a Steinway, because everybody already has or wants one), but even if you're a friggin' billionaire and decide to gift me one, I still don't want it.

Why?

Because I can't afford a house with a living room big enough for a 10 foot concert grand. Even if you'd gift me the house, I probably can't afford the upkeep of it.

So, I set my sights realistically... after selling my (very high-end) Hammond organ clone, I bought a high-end digital piano. The only series of digitals that are better than this one start at a price point around €2000 up, and it wasn't worth that for me.

Why? 1st: because this stuff ages. Also, this one has 10 years of warranty (hoping the *** honors it, and doesn't just tell me to *** off because I practiced too much if something happens...!!!)

2nd: I'm not good enough. I'm switching from Hammond organ to piano, and I have to relearn everything, including the type of music played.

3rd: I'm in an appartment, so I don't think people will appreciate an acoustic piano that has a certain volume.... a digital can be used with headphones, or can be played at low volume levels.

In 10 years, after the warranty on this one runs out and I've become better (I hope), I'll take a look at the market, and possibly get a high-end upgright with a silent system built in. Or the in-vogue digital at that time.... if I can afford it.

The chance of me owning a grand piano larger than about 5 foot 7 or 6 foot at most, is about 0%, just because they are *too large* for the average home in the Netherlands. (And even then, 6 foot is pushing it.)

Although we get it, at the biz, too.

It's everywhere. I've never seen a company advertising with "highest prices around", and "you won't find worse quality anywhere". Why advertise with 'lowest price and best quality'? I *assume* your prices are not over the top, and that the quality reflects the price.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Hitch

(smile) I see that type of thing everywhere. Whether it's cars or makeup or whatever, people constantly put forth all these reasons why they can't spend X, and then ask for "anybody got X at my price?" Maybe it's a form of haggling, rather than denial or wishful thinking?

Although we get it, at the biz, too. I had a guy recently who called me (when we hadn't responded to his email in, like, 15 WHOLE minutes....apparently, all these good folks think I'm sitting around, just waiting for the phone to ring--no doubt in that dark basement in my parent's house, while I munch on hotpockets, or whatever...) and instructed me, before he hung up to "give [him my] best price," because he was price-shopping.

Oh, man, YOU GOT ME! Busted! I was just about to give you my HIGHEST price! /not. I mean, as I told him on the line, "we always do." And I do.

What do people think? I don't get that. I have lost track of the "I'm on Social Security/disability/broke," emails. Oh, I have one, right now--a guy we did a book for in 2011, who just told me that he's been declared bankrupt. Uh....okay, but, what does he think I'm supposed to do with that? I have employees that want to NOT be bankrupt, too.

On one hand, I really do think it's a form of denial. "Oh, I can't afford that Ferrari Daytona, but maybe some little old lady from Miami has a used one for $10,000.00." Or it's wishful thinking "oh, gosh, maybe that perfect car and babe magnet is out there, just waiting for me to find it, abandoned, in an old lady's barn..." Or something. I like a bargain as much as the next guy (and really, who doesn't realize that the "it fell off a truck" marketplace of eBay doesn't thrive on just that very thing?), but I don't assume that I'm going to find some magical deal that will fulfill my wishlist at 10% of the price. That's just...crazy talk. Hell, if someone called me up, offering my dream car (assuming I had one) for $10K, I'd assume I was on Candid Camera or Punked or whatever today's version of that is.

(sigh). You ever notice, we should change the name of this thread? From "V&R" to "People Suck?" lol.

Hitch

You see it on cooking forums too.
There are several I won't visit because of their $, $$$ attitudes.
On others, you get the I am disabled and either want x cheap or I quit cooking what no cook foods that aren't junk are cheap.

I do hate the I am broke and so I can't afford professional help for my X so I am doing it all myself. Why do they think they can make a career out of something they know nothing about.

That would be like me becoming a professional artist with rose art watercolors or rose art 8 pack crayons on cheap printer paper. I don't need to invest more because I am the greatest artist since James Whistler. With a needle and floss or yarn and a canvas I am pretty handy. (On that I am super expensive because I really don't want to make it a career again.)

Spoiler:

I actually draw worse than a if you add the two digits of my age together.

[Katsunami]

Well... the one thing Dell has still going for it is that they have a user's manual online that describes how to remove the keyboard from the Precision 7510. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes and some care. You know, they could be such a great brand if they would return to their pre-2008 build quality (especially with regard to keyboards), and actually provide the warranty that's on the receipt.

Even though the keyboard I ordered through E-Bay is already underway, I'm still considering to lodge a complaint with one of the consumer-oriented TV programs in the Netherlands (Kassa), to see if I can draw attention to shit like this.

"Our keyboards don't break. If you've got a broken key, you handled your laptop inappropriately, so it's not covered by warranty."

Morons. You claim to build a workstation class laptop, put a 3 year next business day warranty on it, and then refuse to fix it when customers actually use the machine for 6-10 hours a day? Get lost. This is not a €450 plastic Acer that gets used for e-mail and Facebook half an hour a day. This machine gets more keystrokes and screentime in a 5 working days than what most private/home laptops receive in 5 months. It was built for that. It costs €2K. *USE DURABLE COMPONENTS THAT CAN STAND THAT KIND OF USE!*

Damn, I'm pissed. Not because of the fact that the keyboard broke, nor even the fact that it costs €35 to replace (and 2-3 weeks waiting to get it here from the USA), but because of DELL's *****-up attitude with regard to supporting their top of the line machines. (Nowadays...)

[Cinisajoy]

Katsunami,
That is part of the reason we won't even look at Dell. I know someone that has owned several Dells. He swears by them even though every one of their computers and whatever you call that first tablet/netbook/tiny computer has had problems from the start. Everything from not connecting to the wireless to motherboards to who the heck knows what. He dang sure gets his money's worth out of that additional service contract they sell.
Now the funniest one was their Dell laptop. They paid 3 times for what we did for new HPs. Supposed to be customized.
It had less RAM, less memory, lower end processor, etc. Oh yes sir we can do 256 RAM, 1 GB hard drive etc. No enhanced anything. This was when new laptops were coming out with at least 512 and 5 GB on the lower end computers.
Ok so I will give it that a lot of the problem may be PEBCAK, but still to rip someone off like that.
Hence I won't buy Dell.

[Katsunami]

DELL has been going downhill the last 10 years.

My first one could be customized from top to bottom, and it wouldn't be more expensive than an equivalently configured HP or IBM. If something broke, it always was "Sorry to hear that sir, we'll fix it right away", and next day, I had a new part mailed to my home or a tech come by to fix it. That has happened only twice, on different machines.

Then in 2008 I bought a Lattitude. Configurability was much lower than what I was used to. It had problems out of the box. It broke down in different ways during the next 3 years. Because DELL fixed it each time, without any problems, I extended the warranty to 5 years. When it finally didn't keep up anymore, I replaced it.

That is the Precision 7510 I have now. Configurability was ZILCH, apart from standard stuff such as size of the hard drive and memory size. It had problems out of the box (torn bottom plate; got sent a new one), failed SSD (got replaced), and now, a broken keyboard, which DELL refuses to fix because of 'inappropriate handling.'

That does it for me. No more over the top laptops to work on. I'm going back to the desktop, with a nice 1920x1200 screen that can be used at 100%, and in which I can replace any part (except for the mainboard) within minutes, and often for less than €100 (except for the graphics card). With regard to laptops, I'm scaling back to the absolute minimum I can get away with as a backup... the only real requirements would be 16GB of RAM, and a matte IPS screen. Any entry-level business laptop can provide that.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Katsunami

DELL has been going downhill the last 10 years.

My first one could be customized from top to bottom, and it wouldn't be more expensive than an equivalently configured HP or IBM. If something broke, it always was "Sorry to hear that sir, we'll fix it right away", and next day, I had a new part mailed to my home or a tech come by to fix it. That has happened only twice, on different machines.

Then in 2008 I bought a Lattitude. Configurability was much lower than what I was used to. It had problems out of the box. It broke down in different ways during the next 3 years. Because DELL fixed it each time, without any problems, I extended the warranty to 5 years. When it finally didn't keep up anymore, I replaced it.

That is the Precision 7510 I have now. Configurability was ZILCH, apart from standard stuff such as size of the hard drive and memory size. It had problems out of the box (torn bottom plate; got sent a new one), failed SSD (got replaced), and now, a broken keyboard, which DELL refuses to fix because of 'inappropriate handling.'

That does it for me. No more over the top laptops to work on. I'm going back to the desktop, with a nice 1920x1200 screen that can be used at 100%, and in which I can replace any part (except for the mainboard) within minutes, and often for less than €100 (except for the graphics card). With regard to laptops, I'm scaling back to the absolute minimum I can get away with as a backup... the only real requirements would be 16GB of RAM, and a matte IPS screen. Any entry-level business laptop can provide that.

Now do you want to hear a good one.
My husband's monitor Gateway 24 inch wide screen HD 1080p 1920 by 1200 Universal inputs (he uses HDMI) Ultra response 2 ms Ultra color gamut 92% picture in picture, started doing weird things. He decided to just take it apart since as he figured he couldn't break it. Took it apart, cleaned it, put it back together and it now looks better than it did when he got it.

[Hemmi]

I've had 3 Dell laptops and not a problem with any of them. They've only been replaced due to their age and not being upgradable anymore.

[wodin]

I work in a large Dell/Cisco Campus Area Network with several thousand Dell laptop/desktop/server computers and several hundred Cisco routers/switches (with a few older Brocade switches due for replacement by Cisco switches). We have had minimal trouble with our Dells, but then we typically Life Cycle them out in three to five years.

[Toxaris]

The brand that currently gives me the least of problems with their professional lines, is HP strangely enough. In the past I used a lot of IBM (and Lenovo in the beginning) and Dell. The quality of all started to go down hill.

[CRussel]

For me it used to be HP, until the most recent one I got. OTOH, I actually love my Surface Book. Especially now that the firmware has gotten rock solid.

[cromag]

I have been using Lenovo PCs since my "IBM" ThinkCentre in 2002 (I think?). I currently have three Lenovo laptops.

But when I had to replace my desktop two years ago I went with a Dell. Not so much because it was a Dell -- I've never had any love for Dell -- but because I could get it at a good price from Costco, with their own support and their customer satisfaction policy.

I'm not thrilled with it, but it's okay. It does seem to run a bit slower than I'd expect from the specs, but I haven't had any major problems.

[Blossom]

My sister saw her doctor on Friday. Someone cancelled and they had an last minute opening. The doctor took one look at her and ordered therapy. So she's going to have in home therapy finally!

Mom finally has a health aide. She's running the woman ragged already. I met her today. She seems a little lost. I told Mom stop being bossy because my mom is super bossy. As kids she would sit and do nothing and boss us around. Some things never change.

Hubby worked today. The factory is opened again!



Sent from my XT1528