The Vent and Rant Thread

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Nobody is afraid of death--it's the dying that they want to avoid. :-)

I like Woody Allen's take. "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying."

New Vent:

I have a bloody word-processing file, NOT a scan, that has [B]HARD hyphens in it, at the end of lines.

What word processor did they use, and how did they manage to do that?

I haven't had to do serious word processing in some time, so I'm out of practice, but I have no idea how to do that. (I have no idea why I'd want to do that, but that's another matter. )
______
Dennis

[wodin]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I haven't had to do serious word processing in some time, so I'm out of practice, but I have no idea how to do that. (I have no idea why I'd want to do that, but that's another matter. )
______
Dennis

Uh... WordStar?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I like Woody Allen's take. "I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying."


What word processor did they use, and how did they manage to do that?

I haven't had to do serious word processing in some time, so I'm out of practice, but I have no idea how to do that. (I have no idea why I'd want to do that, but that's another matter. )
______
Dennis

They are not using word wrap.
They are writing a sentence -- enter/return key.
Repeat -- enter/return key.

When I took computer applications (self-paced) in college, the professor had put use word wrap in your documents. I spent 2 hours looking for word wrap in word. Bugged a half a dozen professors to try to find it. (I thought it would be great for the recipes I was working on).
Not one computer professor could figure it out. When the professor got back from vacation, she explained it wasn't part of the program but just a concept that meant don't hit the return key when you get to end of the line. This was Word 97.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

They are not using word wrap.
They are writing a sentence -- enter/return key.
Repeat -- enter/return key.

But that's not what was being done. Hitch talked about "hard hyphens", which is a whole different thing.

When I took computer applications (self-paced) in college, the professor had put use word wrap in your documents. I spent 2 hours looking for word wrap in word. Bugged a half a dozen professors to try to find it. (I thought it would be great for the recipes I was working on).
Not one computer professor could figure it out. When the professor got back from vacation, she explained it wasn't part of the program but just a concept that meant don't hit the return key when you get to end of the line. This was Word 97.

I go back rather farther, and learned the difference early. Learning not to treat an editor on a computer like a typewriter was a lesson I learned on the mainframe that was the first system I dealt with.

I had different issues. Conceptually, a word processor is a text editor, with additional features to control what the printed output looked like. Early systems made output formatting a separate process. Unix systems, for example, used the vi editor to create and edit text. Output formatting was handled by embedding code in the text that would be processed by the nroff program, which output the file fed to a printer. The old WordStar editor on DOS used "dot" commands that did not appear in the text, but were interpreted by the printer. More modern word processors combined text editing with output formatting, using a WYSIWYG format so formatting appeared onscreen.

Typewriters tended to have Line Feed and Carriage Return keys. The Line Feed key advanced the paper one line, but left the column you were on the same. The Carriage Return returned the platen to the home position, so typing would begin at the start of the line on the page. Computer editors used non-printing characters to indicate this. The Line Feed was the ASCII 11 character, and the ^J character indicated it in the text. Carriage Return was indicated by ASCII 13, or ^M.

Text editors created and edited ASCII files, and the question was what indicated End Of Line? On Unix machines and derivatives, the LF character was the EOL character. Macs using OS/9 and earlier used CR. MSDOS and Windows used both, in a CRLF combination.

I spent a fair bit of time doing line end conversions to move files between systems. For instance, I had a script at one employer running on Unix machines to create a nightly report of what was done and email it to the project managers. Unix used LF as EOL character. The mail got sent to users as an attachment in email, and they'd double-click the attachment to read it.

The standard program for text file on Windows was Notepad, and Notepad was stupid. When it encountered the LF character it advanced to a new line, but there was no CR so it didn't home the cursor. Users saw a stair-step in the attached file, and it was hard to read. I had to insert a step in the script that turned all LF characters into CRLF combos to produce output users could read. (Editors I used all understood *nix conventions and displayed the files properly.)

I think Notepad on Windows is a bit smarter these days, but since the first thing I do is replace Notepad with something better, I don't know for sure.
______
Dennis

[ApK]

Aren't hard hyphens what you get if you hyphenate your words at the end of a line and type as Cin describes? That's what I assume she meant.
That's how someone with a long lifetime of typewriter experience might type on a word processor.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by wodin

Uh... WordStar?

I doubt it.

I learned WordStar back in the days when it was a second editor you learned on a PC, because the one you preferred might not be installed on the PC you had to work on but WordStar probably was. I stayed fluent in it because other editors either used the WordStar command set or could be told to. I had Gnu Enacs customized to use WordStar keystrokes to avoid retraining my fingers. And I still have a DOS WordStar clone called VDE on my Win10 PC under vDosPlus, and on my Android tablet under an Android port of DOSBox.

WordStar has quirks, but hard hyphens aren't one of them.
______
Dennis

[Blossom]

Mom called me to tell me her bath lady left her stuck in the bath chair.

It seems my cat left a present of a headless small mouse on the floor so when the bath lady saw it she went into hysterics and ran out of house leaving mom soaped up in the bath. We got mom taken care of but told them not to send any one who has delicate sensibilities. Luckily her nurse is a farm girl.

Sent from my XT1528

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

But that's not what was being done. Hitch talked about "hard hyphens", which is a whole different thing.


I go back rather farther, and learned the difference early. Learning not to treat an editor on a computer like a typewriter was a lesson I learned on the mainframe that was the first system I dealt with.

I had different issues. Conceptually, a word processor is a text editor, with additional features to control what the printed output looked like. Early systems made output formatting a separate process. Unix systems, for example, used the vi editor to create and edit text. Output formatting was handled by embedding code in the text that would be processed by the nroff program, which output the file fed to a printer. The old WordStar editor on DOS used "dot" commands that did not appear in the text, but were interpreted by the printer. More modern word processors combined text editing with output formatting, using a WYSIWYG format so formatting appeared onscreen.

Typewriters tended to have Line Feed and Carriage Return keys. The Line Feed key advanced the paper one line, but left the column you were on the same. The Carriage Return returned the platen to the home position, so typing would begin at the start of the line on the page. Computer editors used non-printing characters to indicate this. The Line Feed was the ASCII 11 character, and the ^J character indicated it in the text. Carriage Return was indicated by ASCII 13, or ^M.

Text editors created and edited ASCII files, and the question was what indicated End Of Line? On Unix machines and derivatives, the LF character was the EOL character. Macs using OS/9 and earlier used CR. MSDOS and Windows used both, in a CRLF combination.

I spent a fair bit of time doing line end conversions to move files between systems. For instance, I had a script at one employer running on Unix machines to create a nightly report of what was done and email it to the project managers. Unix used LF as EOL character. The mail got sent to users as an attachment in email, and they'd double-click the attachment to read it.

The standard program for text file on Windows was Notepad, and Notepad was stupid. When it encountered the LF character it advanced to a new line, but there was no CR so it didn't home the cursor. Users saw a stair-step in the attached file, and it was hard to read. I had to insert a step in the script that turned all LF characters into CRLF combos to produce output users could read. (Editors I used all understood *nix conventions and displayed the files properly.)

I think Notepad on Windows is a bit smarter these days, but since the first thing I do is replace Notepad with something better, I don't know for sure.
______
Dennis

I did take typing in high school. (Two different classes at the same time.) Old electrics (not the good selectrics in typing class). And a newer typewriter in Vocational Office Education. 10 key, typing and whatever Mr. Davis could think of for me to do.
I was supposed to be in Coordinated Vocational Academic Education, but the teacher knew I could master a tax form in a hurry and didn't want me bored so she made a deal with Mr Davis that I could do first semester VOE that semester, then my senior year, do second semester and just test the packets he loved 3rd semester.
I missed senior year, I had a case of the stupids instead.

When I went to college years later, I had a Brother word processor, then later a homemade computer (my brother put it together for me.) Been through several computers since then.
Notepad was a 4 letter word. Yuck.

So now what is a hard hyphen?

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by Hitch

It's a bit like people with bad lifestyle habits, you know? (Not saying that this is you, at all, just...discussing...). They think if they smoke, or don't exercise, etc., that they'll just die younger. Pop their clogs at 60, or whatever.

But unfortunately, that's not what happens.

LOL, no. That doesn't happen. I can remember my mom telling me that grandpa got told by the doctor that if he continued as he was doing (smoking like a chimney, not moving a muscle since retirement, and drinking more than is healthy) he wouldn't last another 5 years.

He continued, and lasted another 20. He eventually died in his sleep at 89.

I don't have any bad habits AFAIK, except not exercising enough since I've been working. Between work, courses, household, and commuting, there just aren't enough hours in the day except for Saturday and Sunday, but there are no martial arts classes on those days... (only at 18:00 or 19:00 on weekdays, and I can't manage that), and I hate stuff such as running or swimming.

Oh, and I do know one guy who just popped off: my father's neighbor, at 78. He maintained a complete vegetable garden (of 57x10m, same size as my father's garden), daily. One day in the summer he told my father: "I'm a bit tired. I'm going to lie down for a while. See you later." He set down his shovel, went inside, and 10 minutes later, we got the news he was dead. Just fell asleep on the couch and never woke up again.

[Rumpelteazer]

Originally Posted by covingtoncat73

Oh, no! Feel better soon.

Originally Posted by Hitch

@Rumple: I sure hope you feel better soon!!!

Hitch

Thank you.
It seems like it'll be one of those quicky colds. The swelling and soreness are gone, though it still feels like I have eaten a big pack of sanding paper and my throat is very dry. Currently I'm a bit sniffly and I have to sneeze a lot. During the night I was wheezy, making all kinds of interesting sounds, so I kept myself awake. Luckily, today I only have to work until 2pm, I'll treat myself to a nice nap in the afternoon.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

. . . The standard program for text file on Windows was Notepad, and Notepad was stupid. When it encountered the LF character it advanced to a new line, but there was no CR so it didn't home the cursor. Users saw a stair-step in the attached file, and it was hard to read. I had to insert a step in the script that turned all LF characters into CRLF combos to produce output users could read. (Editors I used all understood *nix conventions and displayed the files properly.)



I think Notepad on Windows is a bit smarter these days, but since the first thing I do is replace Notepad with something better, I don't know for sure.

______

Dennis

I've always loved Notepad if for no other reason than it doesn't do formatting beyond allowing global changes in font and don't sizes. It comes in quite handy when copying formatted material when you want the information but not the decorations and links. Sure, Word offers a choice when pasting to keep the source our destination formatting, but that's an additional hoop to jump through that isn't present in Notepad.

Unfortunately, the Word apps for iOS and Android don't open Notepad files, so if I want to open a file with one of my mobile Word apps, it can't be in plain text format. At least, they didn't open those type files last time I checked.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Mom called me to tell me her bath lady left her stuck in the bath chair.

It seems my cat left a present of a headless small mouse on the floor so when the bath lady saw it she went into hysterics and ran out of house leaving mom soaped up in the bath. We got mom taken care of but told them not to send any one who has delicate sensibilities. Luckily her nurse is a farm girl.

Sent from my XT1528

Some caregiver. That woman's in the wrong profession. Your mom is lucky everything turned out okay. It was certainly not because of the quality care.

[Toxaris]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

When I went to college years later, I had a Brother word processor, then later a homemade computer (my brother put it together for me.)

So you replaced your Brother by a brother?

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Toxaris

So you replaced your Brother by a brother?

Pretty much. Oh wow. In about 2 months, I would have had an email address for 20 years. Though for the first year, had to check it at college because I had no home computer. Don't remember the name but it was @midland.cc.tx.us. I was there when it changed to .edu.
My first internet was with a local company (dial up), then I went with a national that had 24/7 tech support. I've been bought out twice. Let's just say I get excellent tech support if I have to call because of the email domain.
I have long since left dial up and desktops.

Now for a vent,
Since we were speaking of my brother, I wish him and my mom and stepdad would all stop acting 12 and talk to each other.
I hate when they try to go through me. My brother and stepdad had a stupid fight and they are both being idiots and refusing to accept it was stress that led to the fight.
So now brother refuses to call mom (she won't use her cell phone) and mom refuses to call my brother if stepdad is home. Plus she doesn't like my brother's long term girlfriend.
So if it isn't one excuse, it is another.
Note: these people are nearly 50, nearly 70 and nearly 80.

[Rumpelteazer]

A couple of weeks ago my uncle agreed to hand over the administration of my grandmother. He wanted €0.50 per copy and €90 per hour for copying it, he estimated the total cost would be €1500. The solicitor dealing with the inheritance has mediated that my father and aunt would make a list of the things they wanted copies of, my uncle would take copies of those to the solicitor (he had an appointment this week) and the solicitor would make sure we got copies of the documents.

My uncle refused to make copies of about half of the documents my father and aunt wanted (which is suspicious IMHO), but today we got the rest of the copies. I'm not sure how long he thinks it takes to make copies but the pack of paper was about 30 double sided pieces of paper. Which proves our suspicions that he named €1500 to discourage us to have the copies made.