Beware Fictionwise

[gilag]

I've experienced similar issues with books vanishing from FW. Fortunately I had downloaded everything I purchased already and it's backed up. I've stopped purchasing books from them and go elsewhere these days. I suspect many others do the same and I bet it'll hurt them to the point of having to shut down at some point. It's a good reminder though to always keep your own local copy and not rely on the seller to save it for you.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by gilag

I've experienced similar issues with books vanishing from FW. Fortunately I had downloaded everything I purchased already and it's backed up. I've stopped purchasing books from them and go elsewhere these days. I suspect many others do the same and I bet it'll hurt them to the point of having to shut down at some point. It's a good reminder though to always keep your own local copy and not rely on the seller to save it for you.

Fictionwise are no more able to guarantee the continued availability of an eBook than is any other bookstore. It's really not fair to blame them for it.

[gilag]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Fictionwise are no more able to guarantee the continued availability of an eBook than is any other bookstore. It's really not fair to blame them for it.

Your right, I didn't mean to blame Fictionwise, it's just the situation. The same situation can and does happen with any other bookstore.

[timezone]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Fictionwise are no more able to guarantee the continued availability of an eBook than is any other bookstore. It's really not fair to blame them for it.

I believe Fictionwise does deserve some of the blame. As you said, A bookstore can't guarantee the availability of a book. If you mean a physical book then sure but we haven't yet purchased it. A layaway is often done with a nominal fee up front. If the bookstore doesn't have the book in the back then they return the money.

I may still be incorrect with regards to responsibility but I do believe my logic holds. Just because a bookstore or any business can't follow through on a promise because of how a process works doesn't mean they are not responsible. Everyone here understands how ebook works and knows that the book seller may not actually hold possession of the book. Knowing this we also know that things happen and agreements are broken between the book seller and publisher. It is part of the natural process if one can call it that of a virtual marketplace.

Does this mean the seller or the publisher is absolved from the responsibility of the promise to deliver on a product that was purchased? Fine print doesn't always give the establishment a pass. Can an establishment put up a sign saying they prefer selling contaminated food and you eat at your own risk? Or can a store say purchasing an item doesn't mean you can walk out of the store with it in hand? Purchase at your own risk.

An item purchased should mean I have the right to it. They offered a place to park our books until we choose to download them. We bought the books and either return the money or provide the book.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by timezone

I may still be incorrect with regards to responsibility but I do believe my logic holds. Just because a bookstore or any business can't follow through on a promise because of how a process works doesn't mean they are not responsible.

Sorry, but I really can't agree. They did follow through on their process - they sold the book and then told the buyer to download it. If the buyer chooses not to do so, is that FW's fault?

[timezone]

Yes it is their fault. A store can't say you can purchase a stove with the promise to hold it for you until ready to get it and then turn around and say, sorry it is gone. Same thing

[timezone]

I believe you are confusing the way a virtual marketplace works with the rights of the buyer.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by timezone

I believe Fictionwise does deserve some of the blame.

FW deserves none of the blame. After the transaction was over, the books were immediately available. The purchaser decided to wait and even then after it was known that April 1 was the date for the Agency 5 to take over, the purchaser still waited. FW even sent out email telling us to download any eBooks we had in the library that we may need to download as they could not guarantee what would be left after April 1.

So really, the OP/purchaser is 100% at fault for not heeding the warnings and downloading after purchase. FW is not at fault.

But if you want to put blame to anyone besides the OP/purchaser, put it on Apple for allowing the Agency 5 to become the Agency 5.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by timezone

Yes it is their fault. A store can't say you can purchase a stove with the promise to hold it for you until ready to get it

But they don't make that promise. Quite the opposite - they explicitly tell you that you must download it because they can't guarantee that it will continue to be available in the future. I'm not making this stuff up - buy a book from FW and read the e-mail that they send you.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by timezone

Yes it is their fault. A store can't say you can purchase a stove with the promise to hold it for you until ready to get it and then turn around and say, sorry it is gone. Same thing

The follwing is from Fictionwise.

9. Ebooks. After purchasing any downloadable eBook or product from Fictionwise.com, it is the Fictionwise Member's responsibility to download the eBook or product within 1 hour of purchase. If you believe an error has been made in the purchase, please do not download the eBook (you must contact us explaining the error at support@fictionwise.com). Once you download the eBook, then it is impossible for us to refund you for it. Please note: Because of the constantly evolving nature of the eBook industry and eBook formats, we do not guarantee that eBooks you purchase from Fictionwise will always be available in the formats that we "currently" support. That is why it is important that you download the eBook in the format of your choice immediately after purchasing.

This says to download the eBook(s) you've just bought right away as they do not guarantee them to always be there. And in this case, they are not there. So the OP/purchaser is well and truly screwed for not having downloading in the time there were there. Face facts, the OP/purchaser bout the eBooks, didn't download them. Then the OP/purchaser received email about April 1 and the Agency 5. Even if the OP/purchase did not somehow receive this email, there were post all over the net about the coming of the Agency 5 and April 1 as the date of mayhem. So I do not feel sorry for the OP/Purchaser for his mistakes. yes, plural as not downloading after buying and after warnings.

[timezone]

I understand what you are saying and I would call this a gray area. With or without the notice, does a business have a responsibility to hold something forever? There probably is a limit even with my stove example. However just because there is a notice doesn't mean they can skirt the laws. A product was purchased and they took the responsibility of maintaining a repository for it. I think this is still a point that can be challenged in a court of law. It maybe the responsibility of the publisher to also maintain that copy even if the relationship is now broken between the two parties. As a result of the issues between the seller and the publisher we are the damaged party.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by timezone

I believe you are confusing the way a virtual marketplace works with the rights of the buyer.

Let's say you go into a bookstore and buy the October issue of a magazine. You accidentally leave the magazine behind at the bookstore. December comes and you finally want to read it and remember that you bought it and left it at the store. Go back to the store and you won't be able to get it. They won't have it. And they won't have any more of that issue on the stands. So really, this is the same thing. The eBooks were left behind in October and are no longer there in December.

[timezone]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Let's say you go into a bookstore and buy the October issue of a magazine. You accidentally leave the magazine behind at the bookstore. December comes and you finally want to read it and remember that you bought it and left it at the store. Go back to the store and you won't be able to get it. They won't have it. And they won't have any more of that issue on the stands. So really, this is the same thing. The eBooks were left behind in October and are no longer there in December.

This is not an accidental left behind issue. They provided a place to store the book. Can a business offer a place to store books and then say but sorry you can't pick up your book. But we will let you click on the download button for the thrill of it.

[timezone]

I actually agree there is a possiblility I am wrong. They did provide a notice. I just think we are to quick to agree to the terms of a virtual marketplace without saying, wait a minute. I still purchased a product and I own it. Whether in this case or in the case of fair use of DRM.

I owned a fictionwise book that I could not transfer to a new reader because it was no longer on Fictionwise. An agreement with the publisher. I lost the book. The publisher said take it up with the store. Fictionwise said it was not there fault. I am the damaged party. I think these issues have to be resolved eventually in court or congress. The virtual marketplace has gotten ahead of the consuner laws.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by timezone

I understand what you are saying and I would call this a gray area. With or without the notice, does a business have a responsibility to hold something forever? There probably is a limit even with my stove example. However just because there is a notice doesn't mean they can skirt the laws. A product was purchased and they took the responsibility of maintaining a repository for it. I think this is still a point that can be challenged in a court of law. It maybe the responsibility of the publisher to also maintain that copy even if the relationship is now broken between the two parties. As a result of the issues between the seller and the publisher we are the damaged party.

It's been almost 6 months since April 1. So the eBooks had to have been purchased sometime before April 1. We know that Under the Dome was available on 12/24/2009. So It's been over 6 months before the OP tried to download his purchases. So if the purchase was made in December to get the best rebate/discount, that would be at least 3 months to allow for the eBooks to be downloaded. Tack on the additional time and its been about 9 months before the eBooks were downloaded. I think Fictionwise is no longer responsible for the OPs inaction.