WHSmith withdrawing access to Mobipocket and Reader ebooks

[astra]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I really don't know why you are surprised. I am vehemently opposed to illegal downloading of ebooks, but I have nothing at all against removing DRM from the books that you have legitimately bought; it's common sense to do so.

Having nothing against it and actually advocating it is not the same.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by geertm

Last saturday I was able to buy books from the new WH Smith store by registering my account with an UK address, and using that same address as billing address for my Dutch credit card.

I was able to buy from WHSmith (for the 1st time in a while) by registering a UK address and using an EntroPay credit card, but the registration process also required a UK phone number. The Books on Board UK store does not require the phone number, but their selection is now very poor.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I really don't know why you are surprised. I am vehemently opposed to illegal downloading of ebooks, but I have nothing at all against removing DRM from the books that you have legitimately bought; it's common sense to do so.

[wallcraft]

Originally Posted by omk3

Does anyone know what those "taxation and contractual issues" are supposed to be? Will all UK ebook stores be enforcing this?

Taxation is VAT, they presumably only want to apply the UK rate. Contractual is geographic restrictions passed on from publishers to retailers.

All ebook retailers (in the US and UK) have to enforce geographic restrictions (or at least, have to appear to do so). Some track the restrictions for each ebook for each country (e.g. Amazon in the US), but others are single-country stores (e.g. Books on Board UK store) so they don't stock an ebook if it isn't for sale in that country.

[robinoz]

Why do these exist?

For many years the book publishers have carved up the world into various English speaking zones, chiefly the two of North America and the Commonwealth with India as an exceptional difference. Books in Australia for example cost about 2 - 3 times the cost in USA and for no very good reason that I can see. The GST in Australia is 10% so that can't explain it. A new hardback costs in the vicinity of A$50.

It does not cost much to transfer an ebook to anywhere in the world!

Why do we (and our governements) put up with this?

[robinoz]

Why do these exist?

For many years the book publishers have carved up the world into various English speaking zones, chiefly the two of North America and the Commonwealth with India as an exceptional difference. Books in Australia for example cost about 2 - 3 times the cost in USA and for no very good reason that I can see. The GST in Australia is 10% so that can't explain it. A new hardback costs in the vicinity of A$50.

It does not cost much to transfer an ebook to anywhere in the world!

Why do we (and our governements) put up with this?

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by robinoz

Why do these exist?

For many years the book publishers have carved up the world into various English speaking zones, chiefly the two of North America and the Commonwealth with India as an exceptional difference. Books in Australia for example cost about 2 - 3 times the cost in USA and for no very good reason that I can see. The GST in Australia is 10% so that can't explain it. A new hardback costs in the vicinity of A$50.

It does not cost much to transfer an ebook to anywhere in the world!

ebooks, no. Paper volumes, yes.

Why do we (and our governements) put up with this?

What would you do instead?

I'm an author in the US. I write a book and sell it to a US publisher, who publishes a US edition. All very well, but what about elsewhere? If my book gets published in the British Commonwealth, who does it? My publisher may not have a UK operation. What about other European countries, like France, Germany, or Spain, or books published in other countries in a translated edition?

Publishers buy rights to publish books in their market areas, and part of what they buy is exclusive rights in their area. Governments in those areas may well be in favor because they want to protect the local publisher.

Even if my publisher does have a subsidiary in Europe, is it in my best interest as an author to have my title handled by one publisher, or might I get a better deal if more than one house is involved, and a foreign publisher offers a better deal than the foreign subsidiary of my US publisher?

And even if I'm published by a major house with operations elsewhere in the world, relationships between corporate subsidiaries aren't simple, and don't mean you won't have the problems you encounter.

eBooks are bringing all of these relationships into question, but I don't see a simple answer. One thing I do see is less publishers when the dust settles. One thing the spread of the Internet has done is made geographical restrictions far less meaningful as well as harder to enforce.
______
Dennis

[omk3]

The question is, what about all those people who live in non english-speaking countries, but want to read books in english? No UK, US, or Australian publisher for them. To take Greece as an example, there were one or two english language (paper) bookstores in Athens, where you could find a rather limited selection of english language books, and then there was the "order online" solution. It might be more expensive (though not always), but sometimes it was the only way to find a book I wanted to read, other than actually travelling. Now with ebooks, it seems I can't even have that option, I need to have a bank account in the publisher's country?

And what about, say, german books? Or japanese? I love learning foreign languages. I love reading books in the language they were written. But I can't, because I have to wait for a Greek publisher to want to make these books available, in their original language, in my country? How probable is that?

Frankly I'm fed up with all these artificial restrictions in a supposedly global world. What's the use of the internet anyway? Maybe we shouldn't be able to access domains outside of our countries of residence either. Hrmph. (If I sound pissed off, it's because I am. Sorry )

Thank goodness for all those independent authors out there. At least they seem to want to be read, instead of inventing obstacles for potential readers...

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by omk3

The question is, what about all those people who live in non english-speaking countries, but want to read books in english? No UK, US, or Australian publisher for them. To take Greece as an example, there were one or two english language (paper) bookstores in Athens, where you could find a rather limited selection of english language books, and then there was the "order online" solution. It might be more expensive (though not always), but sometimes it was the only way to find a book I wanted to read, other than actually travelling. Now with ebooks, it seems I can't even have that option, I need to have a bank account in the publisher's country?

And what about, say, german books? Or japanese? I love learning foreign languages. I love reading books in the language they were written. But I can't, because I have to wait for a Greek publisher to want to make these books available, in their original language, in my country? How probable is that?

Frankly I'm fed up with all these artificial restrictions in a supposedly global world. What's the use of the internet anyway? Maybe we shouldn't be able to access domains outside of our countries of residence either. Hrmph. (If I sound pissed off, it's because I am. Sorry )

Thank goodness for all those independent authors out there. At least they seem to want to be read, instead of inventing obstacles for potential readers...

Exactly. I was anoyed to have to bypass sony's restictions t get book from the US. Sorry there, the US edition was better than the UK one.

[kiwipippa]

Add me to the list of people who is annoyed that I can no longer buy from WH Smith. I am thinking of setting up a UK address to see if I can bypass it - but again, I don't like being less than honest but it's a book for goodness sake -and I'm PAYING for it. I hope my other 2 sites - Book Depository and Waterstones don't do the same thing.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by omk3

The question is, what about all those people who live in non english-speaking countries, but want to read books in english?

Uh, dude. Amazon has sold English books internationally for what, a year now? Which means you can read them on a Kindle, a PC/Mac, iPhone, iPad or Android smartphone.

Not sure exactly what Apple and B&N are up to, but it's probably just a matter of time.

Originally Posted by omk3

Frankly I'm fed up with all these artificial restrictions in a supposedly global world. What's the use of the internet anyway?

Yeah, well. Try traveling to another country without a passport, and let me know how that works out for you.

I hate to break this to you, but your desire to purchase an item, however much that copy of The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo may ennoble you, does not allow you to abolish decades of contracts, requirements to pay specific national taxes, or to ignore a variety of laws. You may believe that restrictions are "artificial," but the fact is that the UK has VAT and the US does not; and an author may have a very different contract with one publisher in one country and a different contract with a different publisher in another country.

Fortunately, the system is slowly starting to accommodate a variety of international ebook issues. However, making sure that the authors and taxes get paid, and that everything is done in accordance with a dizzying variety of local laws, does not happen overnight.

[Baumi]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I'm an author in the US. I write a book and sell it to a US publisher, who publishes a US edition. All very well, but what about elsewhere? If my book gets published in the British Commonwealth, who does it? My publisher may not have a UK operation.

If it weren't for existing contracts, your publisher wouldn't need a UK operation to sell digital goods to someone in the UK. Baen sells books worldwide from the US.

The only sensible way out of this mess would be e-publishing rights that are divided up by languages instead of territories: Sell the worldwide English language publishing rights to company A, sell the French language rights to company B.

Don't ask me how to fairly translate old compensation terms to the new contract model - that should keep an army of lawyers and agents busy for a while. Plus, of course, there'd still be the issue of localized marketing, but US players could hire UK subcontractors to do that and vice versa. Same for all the other English-speaking countries.

Whenever eBooks become the norm rather than the exception, this model shouldn't be too hard to implement for new digital releases, but as long as they're just an (often unloved) add-on to the pBook release, they'll be hampered by artificial restrictions.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Baumi

If it weren't for existing contracts, your publisher wouldn't need a UK operation to sell digital goods to someone in the UK. Baen sells books worldwide from the US.

Because Baen has contracts that permit it.

The only sensible way out of this mess would be e-publishing rights that are divided up by languages instead of territories: Sell the worldwide English language publishing rights to company A, sell the French language rights to company B.

I'm an author. I want the best deal I can get. Do I want to do that?

My interest is in getting the best deal I can, and if I can get more out of selling my book to multiple publishers instead of one, guess what I'll do?

And it leaves out the thorny issue of how my book gets into other languages in the first place.

Don't ask me how to fairly translate old compensation terms to the new contract model - that should keep an army of lawyers and agents busy for a while. Plus, of course, there'd still be the issue of localized marketing, but US players could hire UK subcontractors to do that and vice versa. Same for all the other English-speaking countries.

Re the lawyers, a comment an old friend made about something that happened where he worked - "The lawyers have not yet been born who will get rich off of the litigation about this!" - probably applies.

And localized marketing is a reason you get published by a local publisher. But it's not likely to be an issue for most titles. The marketing dollars get reserved for bestsellers, and are mostly a means of letting the author's following know a new one exists.

Whenever eBooks become the norm rather than the exception, this model shouldn't be too hard to implement for new digital releases, but as long as they're just an (often unloved) add-on to the pBook release, they'll be hampered by artificial restrictions.

Don't bet on it. I worked for a while for an outfit that did streaming video. We had clients who had rights to show video streams here, but not there, and we had to implement geo-location to determine if someone trying to watch the feed was in a place the client had the right to show it. You can see the same thing now in some YouTube offerings.

Digital content is digital content. Territory issues won't go away just because you can deliver over the Internet.
______
Dennis

[vaughnmr]

It will take a while for the dinosaurs to die off, apparently.

[Clancy_s]

Originally Posted by vaughnmr

It will take a while for the dinosaurs to die off, apparently.

So it would seem.

I understand how these restrictions came about, I also find them clumsy, outmoded and a great encouragement to piracy.