Tower(s) of e-Babel - Page 2

Cthulhu · 02-25-2007, 02:43 PM

To be honest, looking at that image posted by Bob, I would absolutely love it if the newspaper page in Firefox looked like that--like a real paper--rather than three inch strip of actual journalism flanked by adds and bisected by some ridiculous banner.

I might actually be willing to pay for content if that were the case.

Pets0undz · 02-27-2007, 11:17 AM

On this topic, are any newspapers supporting the current crop of e-Readers? I'd be willing to buy a Sony Reader if the Wall Street Journal and/or Financial Times were publishing a daily edition for it.

Is anyone using an e-Reader as a paper newspaper replacement?
Cheers
Dan

bob_ninja · 02-28-2007, 08:34 AM

It is about control.
Using paper media the companies have 100% control over production and distribution. Using a standard non-DRM format such as PDF they have 0% control over distribution. Clearly they are looking for the most retrictive scheme that will give them (near) 100% distribution control. Separate app is just another example of that.
Of course, many/most consumers reject these products and stick with paper versions. In the end they simply push people back to paper and keep their own costs higher.

In a way that makes sense. If they loose distribution control in eWorld their revenu can drop as much as 99% as content can be copied and stolen easily. They would prefer to pay the current 40% or whatever percentage loss due to paper printing costs that could be saved in eWorld rather than risk loosing as much as 99% of revenue, which is even worse.

We need a middle ground. Plain PDF is just not good enough for content producers. We need an electronic content vehicle that does have some controls thus forsing us to pay, while at the same time can be used without too much hassle. I guess it will take some time to find this Holy Grail of eContent. Sigh

NatCh · 02-28-2007, 08:49 AM

One thing that seems to be going unconsidered in the current discussion is that newspapers rely on advertising revenues as their primary income, not the newsstand price.

From that perspective, they want their circulation/distribution to be as wide as possible, but they need some way to demonstrate to their advertisers that they really are reaching X number of people, and therefore an ad in their publication should cost Y amount of money.

Papers have pretty much always been instruments of the Public Record, and as such they, historically, have never even tried to stop secondary distribution, short of outright plagiarism, of course.

nekokami · 02-28-2007, 05:35 PM

When I worked for a newspaper 15 or so years ago, I was told by the circulation manager that the subscription revenue was about equivalent to printing cost; the real revenue was generated by ad sales. By that reasoning, newspapers should hope people actually distribute the files. The problem is that as NatCh said, the publishers need to be able to provide evidence to the advertisers of circulation in order to command high insertion rates. So the only software that would really be needed is something that tracks readership, no matter how the file is acquired (and makes it difficult to remove the ads, of course).

The same could be done with books, of course, but many people seem to balk at the idea of ads in books, even if it would make the books themselves free and unrestricted by DRM.

NatCh · 02-28-2007, 05:52 PM

If the ads aren't any more intrusive than traditional print newspaper/magazine ads, then the interest in removing them wouldn't be very high, I wouldn't think.

Then, a single reading software that could tell which paper it is, and zap that info back each time it's read would take care of the issue (pardon the pun).

02-27-2007, 11:17 AM	#17
Pets0undz Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2007 Device: Rocket eBook	any newspapers? On this topic, are any newspapers supporting the current crop of e-Readers? I'd be willing to buy a Sony Reader if the Wall Street Journal and/or Financial Times were publishing a daily edition for it. Is anyone using an e-Reader as a paper newspaper replacement? Cheers Dan

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02-25-2007, 02:43 PM	#16
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	To be honest, looking at that image posted by Bob, I would absolutely love it if the newspaper page in Firefox looked like that--like a real paper--rather than three inch strip of actual journalism flanked by adds and bisected by some ridiculous banner. I might actually be willing to pay for content if that were the case.

02-28-2007, 08:34 AM	#18
bob_ninja Addict Posts: 208 Karma: 582 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: Zire71	It is about control. Using paper media the companies have 100% control over production and distribution. Using a standard non-DRM format such as PDF they have 0% control over distribution. Clearly they are looking for the most retrictive scheme that will give them (near) 100% distribution control. Separate app is just another example of that. Of course, many/most consumers reject these products and stick with paper versions. In the end they simply push people back to paper and keep their own costs higher. In a way that makes sense. If they loose distribution control in eWorld their revenu can drop as much as 99% as content can be copied and stolen easily. They would prefer to pay the current 40% or whatever percentage loss due to paper printing costs that could be saved in eWorld rather than risk loosing as much as 99% of revenue, which is even worse. We need a middle ground. Plain PDF is just not good enough for content producers. We need an electronic content vehicle that does have some controls thus forsing us to pay, while at the same time can be used without too much hassle. I guess it will take some time to find this Holy Grail of eContent. Sigh

02-28-2007, 08:49 AM	#19
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	One thing that seems to be going unconsidered in the current discussion is that newspapers rely on advertising revenues as their primary income, not the newsstand price. From that perspective, they want their circulation/distribution to be as wide as possible, but they need some way to demonstrate to their advertisers that they really are reaching X number of people, and therefore an ad in their publication should cost Y amount of money. Papers have pretty much always been instruments of the Public Record, and as such they, historically, have never even tried to stop secondary distribution, short of outright plagiarism, of course.

02-28-2007, 05:35 PM	#20
nekokami fruminous edugeek Posts: 6,745 Karma: 551260 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Northeast US Device: iPad, eBw 1150	When I worked for a newspaper 15 or so years ago, I was told by the circulation manager that the subscription revenue was about equivalent to printing cost; the real revenue was generated by ad sales. By that reasoning, newspapers should hope people actually distribute the files. The problem is that as NatCh said, the publishers need to be able to provide evidence to the advertisers of circulation in order to command high insertion rates. So the only software that would really be needed is something that tracks readership, no matter how the file is acquired (and makes it difficult to remove the ads, of course). The same could be done with books, of course, but many people seem to balk at the idea of ads in books, even if it would make the books themselves free and unrestricted by DRM.

02-28-2007, 05:52 PM	#21
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	If the ads aren't any more intrusive than traditional print newspaper/magazine ads, then the interest in removing them wouldn't be very high, I wouldn't think. Then, a single reading software that could tell which paper it is, and zap that info back each time it's read would take care of the issue (pardon the pun).

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