Will replace iLiad with a Sony PRS

[firekat]

nekokami,

I sense your frustration building with not getting an Infopad device. I would love to have one too!

Even though you might be lusting over an iLiad and see it as a Valhalla to your needs I can assure you that it is not even close to being ready for prime time, nor is it even close to being an Infopad.

If you are a dedicated hacker you might be able to edge out more functionality. For us mortals the thought of bricking a very expensive device is a good deterrent to not messing around with the iLiad too much. I have only installed ipdf 8.1 so far. I am waiting for more updates from iRex, and this is very frustrating, especially in these "I WANT IT NOW!" times.

Some of the things that will keep the iLiad from being a Infopad is the painfully long boot time, and the screen refresh rate just to mention a few. Currently not having bookmark support in PDF's renders it about 25% functional for reading technical manuals. Writing on the device is not that great, it is not like writing on paper. The pen is still not calibrated and Myscript software is not that great, you cannot from what I have seen even build a template (unless you want to spend even more money) that you can use as a form to enter data and then sync it to your computer.

FYI, let it be known that the bigger and more complex your pdf document is the longer it will take to load and navigate. This is another detriment to device utilization. It still is time consuming in some cases to format pdf's to display well on the device.

Overall the way I see it if you are going to use the iLiad for more that just the most basic of reading purposes you will become more of a slave to the device than it serving your purposes. You will spend hours figuring out how to format your documents, downloading appropriate software to accomplish that, learning about xml, html, css, and a myriad of other things just so that you can get more functionality out of it. All this time could be better spent doing your studying.

I have shown the device to a number of different people. I download weather graphics and occasionally format some technical manual excerpts for use in my preflight briefings. I get lots of compliments on the device but they are always suffixed with statements of how slow the boot time is and how long it takes to refresh and navigate documents.

I always have to give the caveat "this is still a beta device and not completely finished". With the shortcomings of the device I see a large lack of interest in the iLiad after people's initial positive response. When asked the price, I have to say "Expensive" and not give them the real price as it is just too embarrassing that I paid so much for something that is not fully functional and is so hobbled by it's current operational state.

I think that eInk is a neat and innovative technology. IMHO there are shortcomings that negate the suitability of it's use as anything other than the most basic reader. The technology is well suited to other applications, not to an Infopad. It's sort of like the Wankel engine. When the Wankel was marketed by Mazda it was touted as the replacement to the regular piston engine. It was promised to be smoother and more fuel efficient. The truth of the matter is that there were serious shortcomings. Any positive aspects of the engine were usurped by continual improvements made to the piston engine. The Wankel has been relegated to a niche market and from my understanding is being used in other capacities that it is well suited for. That is what I think we might see with the eink technology. LCD, OLED, and other technologies will be further tweaked to get their performance enhanced. Who knows, maybe in time the same will happen to eInk, but I don't see that in the immediate future.

What I have seen that is interesting is the ETI-1 & ETI-2, See here Now these devices are limited in their own way, but I see the Infopad going more in this direction than the iLiad. Right now they are very proprietary. If some talented hacker type people could get their paws on these or something like it I am sure that they could turn it into an Infopad type device.

I guess what I am trying to say nekokami is that if you purchase the iLiad you will be disappointed if you are expecting it to be anything other than a basic ereader device. In short the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I like my iLiad and I honestly and wholeheartedly hope and wish that it will mature and become what I and many others fully expect it to be, so it is not for sale yet!

[jæd]

Originally Posted by firekat

I guess what I am trying to say nekokami is that if you purchase the iLiad you will be disappointed if you are expecting it to be anything other than a basic ereader device.

But that's what it is...

[firekat]

But that's what it is...

Sure, sort of. Still waiting for it to be what was marketed and promised! It's coming up on 8 months since I received the device and it is still not half what was marketed. Where do you think we will be at the 12 month mark?

Just a quick perusal of the Sony Reader forums does not show the same level of frustration that is the general sentiment here. Scotty1024 is posting more over there than here, you can imply a lot with that.

Wanting a iLiad over a Sony Reader might be a misplaced sentiment, sort of like wanting a Range Rover over a BMW X5, one is just flash, the other go.

[nekokami]

Thanks for the honest opinion, Firekat. I actually own an ETI-2 (eBookwise Reader) and yes, it is very proprietary. ETI says they're working on new models, possibly including an E Ink variation. Hopefully future models would allow for user-developed software and a screen resolution capable of displaying PDFs.

While I would love a "true" infopad, at least on the iLiad I'd be able to view PDF articles (I don't have long documents in this format, for the most part, just journal articles) and annotate them, but I know the software isn't really there yet for what I truly need (searchable annotations). The iLiad just seems the closest to being the right platform, with a (relatively) open OS, tablet input, etc. But WAY too expensive. I guess I should just wait for the next generation of devices and see what turns up....

[firekat]

Please wait! Save your hard earned money for a bit yet before making the plunge on the iLiad.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by firekat

Just a quick perusal of the Sony Reader forums does not show the same level of frustration that is the general sentiment here. Scotty1024 is posting more over there than here, you can imply a lot with that.

In general, everybody is posting more in the Sony Reader forums than in the iLiad forums... by which I mean, there's actual traffic over there, and next to nothing here.

Regarding the "true nature" of the iLiad, it's too expensive to be only an eBook reader, at least for me. I'd pay that much for a true Info Pad-- heck, I paid that much for my Newton MessagePad 2100 ten years ago. And despite the slow start time/no sleep mode and latency on E Ink, I think the iLiad hardware could probably manage to be a pretty decent Info Pad, but they'd need to massively bump the priority of the pen input (including calibration and pressure support), get the SDK and unbrick tool published, and possibly actually create the Info Pad software (or at least port appropriate packages to the iLiad to get close). But none of that will likely happen, unless one of their B2B customers asks for it.

And I could be wrong about the iLiad even being a candidate. Based on the videos I've seen, it looks like it could serve, but I haven't personally had to live with the boot time or display latency yet.

So I guess I'm still waiting for the right device to come along... at least I've got my eBw 1150 to read books on in the meantime. That was US$114 including shipping, a much more reasonable price for an eBook reader.

[firekat]

The ETI-1 supports annotation, this is a color device that is being used by the USAF

This does not look to be commercially available but from the specs looks pretty interesting. I wonder if it lives up to it's 8 hour battery life. I am sure that it is prohibitively expensive and seems hobbled by proprietary restrictions.

Oh, and just for giggles I have checked out the forums for the eFlybook, they are just as frustrated with the iLiad there as we are, and they paid a lot more!

[jæd]

Originally Posted by firekat

Still waiting for it to be what was marketed and promised! It's coming up on 8 months since I received the device and it is still not half what was marketed.

You could say that about a lot products... Marketing isn't always the same as the actual features...

Originally Posted by firekat

Where do you think we will be at the 12 month mark?

Further on than we are now. Each month (or so) the Irex team continues to improve and enhance the product...

Originally Posted by firekat

Just a quick perusal of the Sony Reader forums does not show the same level of frustration that is the general sentiment here.

Its a cheaper product with a more defined role and so there are more posters.

Originally Posted by firekat

Scotty1024 is posting more over there than here, you can imply a lot with that.

Only that his Iliad developed a fault...

Originally Posted by firekat

Wanting a iLiad over a Sony Reader might be a misplaced sentiment, sort of like wanting a Range Rover over a BMW X5, one is just flash, the other go.

It depends what you want a vehicle for. Off-road, or urban...? The same for an e-reader. I'd advise any buyer to look at either product and pick the best for them. The Sony Reader seems great for viewing (pre-packaged books. The Irex strengths lie in its versatility. (So perhaps the Irex is the Range-Rover) (Actually in the UK the RangeRover might be more prestigious than the X5...)

[firekat]

jaed,

you make some good points, though at this point in time I would not suggest the purchase of the iLiad to anyone. As the device stands right now it has a minimum of functionality greater than the Sony Reader (save of course that the screen is bigger, which was enough to sell me!). With the iLiad there are still too many unknowns, when the device is "mature" I might change that assessment.

In reading nekokami's other posts I would strongly suggest that he/she save their money, and wait till the iLiad is (if ever) finalized, or in the very least "ready for prime time".

Until the pdf reader section is completed with bookmark support I will continue to be somewhat disappointed with the iLiad. The whole point was to be able to carry a bunch of my documentation without having to start up my laptop. I could have waited for the Sony Reader but the promised/marketed features of the iLiad appeared more appropriate to my needs, so I dropped the close to $800.00 on a device that is still not as promised. If it was not for the fact that I actually have an iLiad in my possession I could nearly categorize it as "vaporware", when you consider the current development point.

I will admit that further updates from iRex are making gains, and quite frankly I am surprised at what they have been able to accomplish so far. The target date of September 2006 as a finalized device is long past, and way off the initial goals.

Two big things that will make me a whole lot more satisfied and not apt to be so negative; bookmark support & faster boot time. The boot time improvement or suspend mode will from what I have seen so far NEVER happen as the general consensus is that the hardware will not support it. Bookmark support will hopefully come some time soon, even you are frustrated with that.

Thanks for all the efforts that you have made to improve the iLiad. Hopefully some time soon I will try your bookmark hack. Right now for me that is a bit complex as on initial inspection I will have to install php on my Windoze computer and a few other php programs & quite frankly I don't know where to even start on that project!

A lot of the enhanced functionality is either only partially available (like pen support but yet it cannot be calibrated) or is beyond the ability of most users as it requires a fair amount of computer knowledge and has potential bricking consequences.

As to scotty's iLiad developing a fault, does that impeach the resiliency of the iLiad?

As to the Rangie vs X5, the X5 could be considered a fine SUV but not a very good 4WD, the Rangie is SUPPOSED to be a good 4WD, but in truth is nothing more than a SUV, and not a very reliable one at that! I speak from experience!

Otherwise, Go iRex & the iLiad development team! I truly want to be fully satisfied with the device, after all I paid a lot for it!

[Adam B.]

I agree with jaed. Although the illiad might not yet be ready for the average user, it is definitely a power user or hacker's device. The sony is more for your "ooh, I clicked download book and it's magically on my reader" type of user. Not suggesting the iliad to anyone is just ignorant. Just because the device doesn't have the (2) functions you are looking for, doesn't mean that it's not useful to anyone.

I guess the moral of the story is: Know what you are buying before you put down the money.

Irex could stop development on the iLiad today, and I will still be 100% satisfied with the device. Don't listen to marketing, or "planned features". You chose to be an early adopter of a product that wasn't planned to be sold directly to users. Know what you're getting into before you make the jump.

[nekokami]

I have to say that the "cool geek toy" aspect is still quite appealing. I have enough Unix experience that I'm not intimidated by the idea of executing at the shell (now that the shell hack is available), and php and I are on friendly terms, if not a first-name basis. But if I can't afford US$700-800 for an eBook reader, I definitely can't afford it for a hacking toy. My upper limit for the device as it stands now is probably about US$250. Maybe $300. And again, I have to point out that for eBook reading purposes, I'm pretty happy with the eBw 1150, other than the need for a Windoze system to convert and load books. And that was US$114.

The lack of suspend/resume is annoying, but the pen calibration is actually a bigger issue for me. I'd also need to see more in the way of HWR on the iLiad to make it worth my while. The release of the SDK might make a big difference, because that could prompt another wave of community development, but I think the price of the unit is just too high. That's why I might consider a used one, but a new model is out of the question.

Hopefully someone will come out with a different low-power linux handheld with good readability and pen support at a better price range. Lots of potential vendors have announced plans. We'll see what comes of them.

[b_k]

For the infopad approach a wiki would be a way to get something similar on the iLiad. Since php, lighttpd and co are already ported to some embedded platforms (OpenWrt anybody?) it would probably only be a compiler run to have it running there.
But I fear the danger of bricking the iLiad.

If we already had a bootloader with a way to reflash from SD/CF by pressing 1 or 2 buttons on power-up I would be in.

As of now, I simply see no reason (for me) to setup the iRex toolchain, without having a (free) way to reflash the system.

[nekokami]

Right. If I knew there was a wiki running on iLiad, particularly with HWR input (with appropriate stylus calibration), I would have to seriously consider coughing up the cash. But as you point out, b_k, with no real SDK and no free reflash, I'm not holding my breath on this.

[Ivan]

I was excited about the device but I felt a lot of frustration on it, particularly, the power management. The utmost important objective of an ereader is the low power consumption, yet the 2.8 version can only give me less than 8hours battery time even I just turn on the device without doing anything. I guess they have to fix it ASAP (suppose to be yesterday). I think the power should last at least 20 hours (for just turn on without doing anything); so I can charge it while I go to sleep and use it again for tomorrow!!!!

I will not suggest the purchase of the iLiad to anyone now, especially with such high price. I still like it-I mean the eink idea but I am trying to buy a sony ereader ….
I feel bad since I paid even much more than ordinary price of iLiad for my Chinese version of Iliad with NO customer service except for quotation response!!!!.
--IC