Toshiba Matsushita Display readies E Ink competing LCD panel - Page 2

Cthulhu · 01-17-2007, 11:59 AM

Point of Clarification:

The screen is 5.01". Is that diagonal, one side of a rectangle (looks like) or square?
I, for one, have come to loathe the fact that we still market screens by this rather misleading metric. (i.e. diagonal length) I know the pythagorean theorem, but that does not help me if I only know the hypotenuse. Considering that the plethora of new television are now rectangular to resolve the new aspect ratio to accommodate film and fancy TV shows, only knowing the hypotenuse really tells me squat about relative size. I suppose I could figure out the sides using calculus and a ratio of 16:9, but really...

Besides my rant about unsavory marketing, I think that news of this new screen is astounding! For me, the higher refresh rate is encouraging; I have seen the Reader refresh, and it's too jarring at the moment. I'm on the fence about overall price of the Reader (including content), but this seems like it brings the experience that much closer to simply turning a page.

Cannot wait to hear who will be implementing this screen in their product.

NatCh · 01-17-2007, 12:27 PM

Hey, Cthulhu, long time no read.

I've always been rather annoyed by the diagonal measurement of screens too.

We have a 26" TV (that I've had for 10 years), and I was trying to decide how big an HD screen I'd need to get the same height (I like the size it is, okay?

). That ought to be a pretty straightforward business, but I too had to trot out the pythagorean theorem, and the ratios, and still ended up taking a tape measure to the store before I'd believe my results (~40" if anyone wants to know). And the annoying thing is that I just wanted to know what size screen I should be watching the prices on, as I don't plan to replace my perfectly good TV until I have to.

I guess they came up with the diagonal measurement because it gives them a single number to put in the advertisements rather than two. And I s'pose I've gotten mostly used to it, as long as they don't go changing the stinkin' ratios, anyway.

Bob Russell · 01-17-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

I guess they came up with the diagonal measurement because it gives them a single number to put in the advertisements rather than two.

Like you say... it's probably the marketers. So my theory has always been that they didn't so much want a single number as they wanted to have a BIG number!

NatCh · 01-17-2007, 01:05 PM

Heh, now that you point it out, I think you're probably very close to the truth there.

slayda · 01-17-2007, 01:30 PM

To make matters worse, a CRT is measured to the corner of the surrounding bevel but LCDs are measured to the corner of the actual display seen, making a LCD of the same size have a larger actual display area than an LCD. Not sure about E-ink or Plasma Screen displays but they are probably more like the LCD measurement.

stxopher · 01-17-2007, 02:23 PM

Don't forget to take into account the format of the screen also. 4:3? 16:9? 16:10? 15:9?

All use diagonal but depending on the ratio it can drastically change how things look on screen. The wider the screen the larger the diagonal gets without changing the height (or even shrinking it if you get the same diagonal size but with a wider screen).

Cthulhu · 01-17-2007, 07:24 PM

I must have basic algebra problems: I could not create a sufficient formula for 'b' expressed as a function of 'a.' Suppose that I am quite rusty.

@ Natch: I share your pain. I have a 32" CRT, and when I move next year, I do not wish it to move with me.
I went online to see what size I should get. Found some reviews of 32" LCD's, and they are considered "smaller" televisions in the world of flat panel! My 32" CRT is quite large to me, so I'm thinking that a 40" LCD will be all the bump that I need.

*sigh* so many toys, so few dollars in the bank

Anchoku · 01-20-2007, 12:27 AM

Cthulhu et al,

Pixels are generally square, or very nearly so. The panel is 640 x 480. Divide one by the other and you have 1.33 or 0.75, meaning the panel has a 3:4 aspect ratio which is a common format.

Regarding trigonometry, remember there's such a thing as a 3:4:5 triangle. That makes things remarkably simple: the panel is 3" x 4". Dot pitch, or lines per unit length, is # pixels / # length.

640/4" = 480/3" = 160 dpi

You'll need to hold it 12" or less from your face to see all the detail depending on the quality of your eye sight. That's pretty good, or pretty bad depending on whether you use bifocals.

NatCh,

When you replace your big vacuum tube, you're going to have to do some more advanced trig. Measure from the front of the tube to the backrest of your favorite chair. Measure the height of your tube's viewing area and divide that in half. Draw a right triangle on a sheet of paper with one vertex a lot narrower than the other. Label the short side with the tely's measurement and the long side with your chair's distance. Divide short by long and use a calculator to calculate the arc tangent, tan [-1], or tan inv. That's the magic angle to make sure the new flat panel looks the same size as the old tube. Write it down in the narrow corner. Figure out how much closer to the wall you can put the new tely and run the calculations backwards to get the new tely's new height (of the viewing area).

Two things that often disappoint people because they didn't know to consider them are image size when watching NTSC, PAL and SD formats and, pushing that new tely up against the wall to reclaim some of the old tube's space; thus making it look smaller.

TadW · 01-20-2007, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchoku

Pixels are generally square, or very nearly so. The panel is 640 x 480. Divide one by the other and you have 1.33 or 0.75, meaning the panel has a 3:4 aspect ratio which is a common format.

Regarding trigonometry, remember there's such a thing as a 3:4:5 triangle. That makes things remarkably simple: the panel is 3" x 4". Dot pitch, or lines per unit length, is # pixels / # length.

640/4" = 480/3" = 160 dpi

You'll need to hold it 12" or less from your face to see all the detail depending on the quality of your eye sight. That's pretty good, or pretty bad depending on whether you use bifocals.

Thanks for the wonderful explanation, Anchoku. I never got it quite right with calculating dpi. How did you come up with the 12" viewing distance?

NatCh · 01-20-2007, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchoku

When you replace your big vacuum tube, you're going to have to do some more advanced trig. Measure from the front of the tube to the backrest of your favorite chair. Measure the height of your tube's viewing area and divide that in half. Draw a right triangle on a sheet of paper with one vertex a lot narrower than the other. Label the short side with the tely's measurement and the long side with your chair's distance. Divide short by long and use a calculator to calculate the arc tangent, tan [-1], or tan inv. That's the magic angle to make sure the new flat panel looks the same size as the old tube. Write it down in the narrow corner. Figure out how much closer to the wall you can put the new tely and run the calculations backwards to get the new tely's new height (of the viewing area).

Or ... I could buy one with the same vertical measurement, and move my chair a bit closer.

Actually, I'm hoping the SED sets come out sometime soon. They look promising to me.

yvanleterrible · 01-20-2007, 12:23 PM

The only measurements that interest me with TVs are the exterior ones so they can fit in the furniture we have.

segatang · 01-23-2007, 02:23 AM

A Japanese company -- Seiko have used the panel in their new electronic dictionary:
http://www.sii.co.jp/cp/products/eng...00/page01.html

It looks good.

Kris777 · 04-25-2009, 01:28 AM

JetBook has the same screen. If you have or tested jetBook please submit your opinion about TFT screen on this thread:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45593

tbear · 02-17-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris777

JetBook has the same screen. [/URL]

This LCD screen is not that good because of much worse reflectance ratio (meaning darker white).
Slightly better contrast ratio is what they advertise, but
even extremely dark black would still be difficult to read if white is not white enough.

01-20-2007, 12:27 AM	#23
Anchoku Connoisseur Posts: 54 Karma: 164 Join Date: Jan 2007	Cthulhu et al, Pixels are generally square, or very nearly so. The panel is 640 x 480. Divide one by the other and you have 1.33 or 0.75, meaning the panel has a 3:4 aspect ratio which is a common format. Regarding trigonometry, remember there's such a thing as a 3:4:5 triangle. That makes things remarkably simple: the panel is 3" x 4". Dot pitch, or lines per unit length, is # pixels / # length. 640/4" = 480/3" = 160 dpi You'll need to hold it 12" or less from your face to see all the detail depending on the quality of your eye sight. That's pretty good, or pretty bad depending on whether you use bifocals. NatCh, When you replace your big vacuum tube, you're going to have to do some more advanced trig. Measure from the front of the tube to the backrest of your favorite chair. Measure the height of your tube's viewing area and divide that in half. Draw a right triangle on a sheet of paper with one vertex a lot narrower than the other. Label the short side with the tely's measurement and the long side with your chair's distance. Divide short by long and use a calculator to calculate the arc tangent, tan [-1], or tan inv. That's the magic angle to make sure the new flat panel looks the same size as the old tube. Write it down in the narrow corner. Figure out how much closer to the wall you can put the new tely and run the calculations backwards to get the new tely's new height (of the viewing area). Two things that often disappoint people because they didn't know to consider them are image size when watching NTSC, PAL and SD formats and, pushing that new tely up against the wall to reclaim some of the old tube's space; thus making it look smaller. Last edited by Anchoku; 01-20-2007 at 12:35 AM.

01-23-2007, 02:23 AM	#27
segatang Connoisseur Posts: 98 Karma: 81 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Taiwan Device: Kolin i-library	A Japanese company -- Seiko have used the panel in their new electronic dictionary: http://www.sii.co.jp/cp/products/eng...00/page01.html It looks good. Last edited by segatang; 01-23-2007 at 02:31 AM.

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01-17-2007, 11:59 AM	#16
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	Point of Clarification: The screen is 5.01". Is that diagonal, one side of a rectangle (looks like) or square? I, for one, have come to loathe the fact that we still market screens by this rather misleading metric. (i.e. diagonal length) I know the pythagorean theorem, but that does not help me if I only know the hypotenuse. Considering that the plethora of new television are now rectangular to resolve the new aspect ratio to accommodate film and fancy TV shows, only knowing the hypotenuse really tells me squat about relative size. I suppose I could figure out the sides using calculus and a ratio of 16:9, but really... Besides my rant about unsavory marketing, I think that news of this new screen is astounding! For me, the higher refresh rate is encouraging; I have seen the Reader refresh, and it's too jarring at the moment. I'm on the fence about overall price of the Reader (including content), but this seems like it brings the experience that much closer to simply turning a page. Cannot wait to hear who will be implementing this screen in their product.

01-17-2007, 12:27 PM	#17
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Hey, Cthulhu, long time no read. I've always been rather annoyed by the diagonal measurement of screens too. We have a 26" TV (that I've had for 10 years), and I was trying to decide how big an HD screen I'd need to get the same height (I like the size it is, okay? ). That ought to be a pretty straightforward business, but I too had to trot out the pythagorean theorem, and the ratios, and still ended up taking a tape measure to the store before I'd believe my results (~40" if anyone wants to know). And the annoying thing is that I just wanted to know what size screen I should be watching the prices on, as I don't plan to replace my perfectly good TV until I have to. I guess they came up with the diagonal measurement because it gives them a single number to put in the advertisements rather than two. And I s'pose I've gotten mostly used to it, as long as they don't go changing the stinkin' ratios, anyway.

01-17-2007, 01:05 PM	#19
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Heh, now that you point it out, I think you're probably very close to the truth there.

01-17-2007, 01:30 PM	#20
slayda Retired & reading more! Posts: 2,764 Karma: 1884247 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Alabama, USA Device: Kindle 1, iPad Air 2, iPhone 6S+, Kobo Aura One	To make matters worse, a CRT is measured to the corner of the surrounding bevel but LCDs are measured to the corner of the actual display seen, making a LCD of the same size have a larger actual display area than an LCD. Not sure about E-ink or Plasma Screen displays but they are probably more like the LCD measurement.

01-17-2007, 02:23 PM	#21
stxopher Nameless Being	Don't forget to take into account the format of the screen also. 4:3? 16:9? 16:10? 15:9? All use diagonal but depending on the ratio it can drastically change how things look on screen. The wider the screen the larger the diagonal gets without changing the height (or even shrinking it if you get the same diagonal size but with a wider screen).

01-17-2007, 07:24 PM	#22
Cthulhu Technologist Posts: 488 Karma: 585237 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: I'm between Cities Device: SONY Reader PRS-500	I must have basic algebra problems: I could not create a sufficient formula for 'b' expressed as a function of 'a.' Suppose that I am quite rusty. @ Natch: I share your pain. I have a 32" CRT, and when I move next year, I do not wish it to move with me. I went online to see what size I should get. Found some reviews of 32" LCD's, and they are considered "smaller" televisions in the world of flat panel! My 32" CRT is quite large to me, so I'm thinking that a 40" LCD will be all the bump that I need. sigh so many toys, so few dollars in the bank

01-20-2007, 12:23 PM	#26
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	The only measurements that interest me with TVs are the exterior ones so they can fit in the furniture we have.

04-25-2009, 01:28 AM	#28
Kris777 Banned Posts: 1,767 Karma: 2520493 Join Date: Oct 2008 Device: Nexus 7, jetBook-Lite, jetBook mini, Toshiba Thrive, JETBOOK COLOR	JetBook has the same screen. If you have or tested jetBook please submit your opinion about TFT screen on this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45593

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