CS Monitor: How Should We Price E-Books?

[calvin-c]

Originally Posted by asjogren

I think eBooks should be LESS than USED paperbacks of the same title.

I can't lend them. I cannot sell them. I can not donate them.

Even a USED paperback has residual value after I have read it.

Please-your rants should distinguish between DRM-crippled & non-DRM'd ebooks. Your argument is only valid for the former.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Amazon did studies to figure out the right price. They know demand for an ebook drops off sharply once you get to $10.

Have these studies been published? I would assume that the demand depends entirely on the book so I am surprised by this result and want to read more about how the study was made.

Plus, if they were concerned about the perceived value of their product, wouldn't they want to go after all those shops that price their hardcover books below cost?

Which shops price new hardcovers below cost?

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by calvin-c

Please-your rants should distinguish between DRM-crippled & non-DRM'd ebooks. Your argument is only valid for the former.

The DRM only enforces the restrictions, they still exist without it.
Even with non-DRM books, unless the store allows it you still aren't allowed to loan or give away the books, although there is no way for that to be enforced.

For example, from the Smashwords terms of use:

1. Purchased works: As End User, you acknowledge that all Work furnished by Smashwords is licensed for the use of the End Users of the Site and may not be sublicensed or resold. If you purchase a work, you hold a non-exclusive, non-transferable, and non-distributable right of use. In other words, you are free to enjoy it for your own use, but you are not authorized to share, sell, or distribute the work to others.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by tompe

Have these studies been published? I would assume that the demand depends entirely on the book so I am surprised by this result and want to read more about how the study was made.

Not sure. I heard Bezos refer to it in an interview.

Which shops price new hardcovers below cost?

I've seen it at big box stores like Target or Barnes and Noble.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Not sure. I heard Bezos refer to it in an interview.

OK. I would be skeptical about such claims since he probably have another agenda.

I've seen it at big box stores like Target or Barnes and Noble.

But how do you know how much these shops payed for the book? And if we are talking best selling hardcovers (which is the relevant ones for this discussion) what is the purpose of the shop to loose money on them?

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by tompe

But how do you know how much these shops payed for the book? And if we are talking best selling hardcovers (which is the relevant ones for this discussion) what is the purpose of the shop to loose money on them?

We don't for sure but it's pretty safe to say that if it's half or more off list, it's at cost or below. We are especially talking about bests sellers. They price them at a loss for the same reason Amazon does when allowed for Kindle books. They're loss leaders. They drive traffic to your store.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Alisa

I don't think the BPHs actually want ebooks to be really popular right now.

Seen this?
http://www.teleread.com/2010/08/04/p...y-jason-davis/

[carld]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

The outrage is because publishers have the temerity to charge more for a product when demand is high. The bastards!

For me the outrage comes from publishers charging more for a product when demand ISN'T high. I was interested in Swan Song by Robert McCammon. Simon and Schuster wants $13.99 for the Kindle edition of a hardcover published in 1989.

The book is #7,853 in the Kindle Store, and #4,590 in Books. That's not bad, but I don't see any justification for such a high price for an old book.

[Elfwreck]

Publishers will likely argue that there is nothing intrinsically anticompetitive about agency pricing, which is used in many other industries.

Which of those industries sell directly to consumers, as opposed to distributors or retail outlets?

I am *fascinated* by the apparent logic of the Big 5 publishers, which seems to be "if we insist on $15 for a new ebook, the customers *will* pay us that much for it. After all, they *need* our books!" (Of course those customers won't buy from indie publishers. If those books were worth buying, we'd be selling them.)

Can we start calling them the Ostrich 5?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ficbot

And Microsoft is working on a video game system that does not need any controllers except the human body.

It is called Kinect and it really and truly works great. Ships Nov 4 2010.
One of its early uses is a personal fitness trainer application from Ubisoft Montreal. It also lets you control movie watching via gestures and voice commands. All they need is an eReader app, now.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Alisa

We don't for sure but it's pretty safe to say that if it's half or more off list, it's at cost or below. We are especially talking about bests sellers. They price them at a loss for the same reason Amazon does when allowed for Kindle books. They're loss leaders. They drive traffic to your store.

From what I have heard big shops got a lot of discount. E.g. Amazon seems to have got up to 70% discount. So half off list would still not be below cost.

I would have thought that hardcover best seller buyers was just interested in the actual book so that it would not be optimal to use these books as loss leaders if you are a book store.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Which of those industries sell directly to consumers, as opposed to distributors or retail outlets?

Publishers using agency model uses distributors. So publishers do not sell directly to consumers.

I am *fascinated* by the apparent logic of the Big 5 publishers, which seems to be "if we insist on $15 for a new ebook, the customers *will* pay us that much for it. After all, they *need* our books!" (Of course those customers won't buy from indie publishers. If those books were worth buying, we'd be selling them.)

Remember that it is the bestselling hardcover editions that are important and is seems like the publishers reasoning is correct for them.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by asjogren

I think eBooks should be LESS than USED paperbacks of the same title.

I can't lend them. I cannot sell them. I can not donate them.

Even a USED paperback has residual value after I have read it.

To play devil's advocate for a second

With eBooks, I can take all my books with me wherever I go. I can read the same book on an iPad at home, my iPhone on the train, and my computer at work, and it remembers where I left off reading last. I can adjust the typefaces depending on my mood and eye strain, can read in the dark without a nightlight. Plus, my wife, my son, and I can all read the same new book at the same time

All of these features make an eBook more valuable to me than a used paperback.

[asjogren]

Originally Posted by kjk

To play devil's advocate for a second

With eBooks, I can take all my books with me wherever I go. I can read the same book on an iPad at home, my iPhone on the train, and my computer at work, and it remembers where I left off reading last. I can adjust the typefaces depending on my mood and eye strain, can read in the dark without a nightlight. Plus, my wife, my son, and I can all read the same new book at the same time

All of these features make an eBook more valuable to me than a used paperback.

I agree with added value for remembering where I left off - for all the books and magazines on my Kindle. There is also some added value to the delivery being now and where ever I am.

I like my Kindle and I prefer eBooks. I just think the industry is structured wrong and priced wrong. With DRM, and I do not see the current crop of Executives at the Big 6 dropping DRM, RENTAL makes more sense for fiction than purchase.

If however, they come up with a scheme to lend, sell-back, reformat for any new different eReader I buy - then the value of an eBook gets closer to a NEW paperback to me.

15 years from now, there is significant risk that DRM'd eBooks I buy today will be orphaned. My Kindle will be obsolete --- if it works at all.

I have no problem with DRM or the licensing restrictions like at SmashWords. (I like SmashWords a lot) I think it lowers the value of the Publisher's product to below a used paperback. With SmashWords - many of the prices are there already. If a Publisher insists on pricing like a new paperback (or worse) they just don't get my money unless I REALLY, *really* want the book.

The publishers, retailers, and authors would get MORE of my money with a rental model for eBooks. Failing that, they would also get more of my money with a reasonable sell-back feature. Or thirdly, they would get more of my money in total if they simply priced eBooks like used paperbacks.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by tompe

Publishers using agency model uses distributors. So publishers do not sell directly to consumers.

They use agents, not distributors; the agents don't get to set the prices or the terms of sale--they can't distribute to other stores who get to resell the items under their own terms. The publisher sets the end-user's purchase price. The article mentioned other industries using this pricing method; I'd like to know what those are. What other industries involve a manufacturer setting the end-user purchase price? (I'm not saying there aren't any just because I can't think of them off the top of my head.)

Remember that it is the bestselling hardcover editions that are important and is seems like the publishers reasoning is correct for them.

Have Baen's hardcover sales dropped in the 10 years they've been offering cheap, DRM-free ebooks?

Do they have any statistics showing that ebook sales reduce hardcover sales? And that higher ebook prices connect to more hardcover sales?