Sony Reader: What do we want from searching? (poll) - Page 2

Dajala · 12-14-2006, 06:01 PM

I don't need a search function but I can see how it could be useful for others, particulary if used for textbooks and non-fiction.

I would like a 'next/previous bookmark' button. A dictionary lookup feature similar to the ebookwise is a must.

airlik · 12-14-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

The situations I'd like to have it in fiction are for the really long "classics" - stuff like "War and Peace", or "The Count of Monte Cristo" where you encounter someone's name who last appeared 1000 pages before and you can't remember who they are. That's especially a problem in "War and Peace" where there are literally hundreds of named characters, many of whom have very similar names.

That's one of the things I'd use it for most, since I tend to have several books on the go at once and would appreciate being able to selectively refresh my memory.

I'm also hoping travel guides will start coming out on the Reader, since it'd be handy to carry around a few on a trip without the bulk... being able to search for place names and such would be great.

When I'm reading, I'll sometimes run into a word I'm not sure of the exact meaning of... usually I'm too lazy to run for the dictionary, but I'd still LIKE to know what it means. Being able to pick a word on the page to look up in a dictionary would be pretty cool. Not sure how it would work with the existing keys, though, unless you went back to the book menu and keyed the word in from there - a search would probably have to work the same way.

Leaping Gnome · 12-14-2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ultim8fury

I don't want or need a search function.

Same here.

alex_d · 12-14-2006, 10:35 PM

I am so frustrated by the very premise of this thread, that... just.... UGH

There's no reason all of those things can't be included. There's no reason that you can't make a great interface using the 20 buttons available that has options and settings and lets you do and view everything you like while not showing you anything you don't want.

Why can't this device be more like a computer? Why does it have to be dumbed down to the point where even illiterate people can use it?

Leaping Gnome · 12-15-2006, 01:08 AM

Computers are the antithesis of ease-of-use. Bookstores have whole departments on how to use a computer, when was the last time you saw a manual on how to use a book? More book-like, less computer-like for me please.

alex_d · 12-15-2006, 03:37 AM

99% of people who use computers didn't read a book. A good interface with descriptive labels and a thoughout structure goes far.

Anyway, we're talking search here. A field, a couple check boxes, and a button called Settings will go far enough. Anyone who wouldn't know how to operate that sure as hell isn't buying an ebook reader. This discussion of whether we should literally have 5 options or 2... on this forum... I'm just puzzled

EDIT: eh, whatever. the worse the interface, the better the chance the community will make something better.

Mycropht · 12-15-2006, 03:44 AM

I really believe that e-book device should surpass paper book reading experience in order to be successful. The two features that would do the trick for me are search and dictionary lookup. As already mentioned, what the search should do depends also on a book.

Fiction: list of occurrences with few rows of text before and after each occurrence with option to jump to the prev/next page of the results. In case of the Sony Reader, the numbered buttons should be used to jump to a specific result (full page). If jumped to the full page viewing of a specific result, I would like an option to jump to the full page viewing of the previous/next result, back to the results list or back to the original page viewed before the search was requested.

Non-fiction: as above + wildcards, relations and just about anything remotely meaningful when searching through a text.

yvanleterrible · 12-15-2006, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mycropht

I really believe that e-book device should surpass paper book reading experience in order to be successful. The two features that would do the trick for me are search and dictionary lookup. As already mentioned, what the search should do depends also on a book.

Right about that!
Asides from the Iliad no one has addresed this properly. "Practicality of use" wise, the paper book has some other advantages like sharing, price and the fact that you can fold corners to mark a page and the best; annotations in the margins. What makes a computing device superior is really a searching engine. An emphasis on this point is critical. Oh! and not to forget multiple books on the same device, but this in itself can be a drawback because if you loan your reader you deprive yourself of the other books on it. There paper has an advantage.

I'm sure I'll get fire for the price point. (deep breath!) Tally up the whole thing: Price of ebook + price of reader + price of SDcards + price of COMPUTER + not to forget the energy usage(during the related usage) of reader, computer and peripherals. Whew!

Don't get me wrong. I prefer the ebook reader for many other factors also that has been described over and over on these pages. What I'm getting to is this. A DESIGN OF AN EBOOK READER HAS TO MAKE IT BETTER THAN PAPER BOOKS IN ALL RESPECTS.

HarryT · 12-15-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Don't get me wrong. I prefer the ebook reader for many other factors also that has been described over and over on these pages. What I'm getting to is this. A DESIGN OF AN EBOOK READER HAS TO MAKE IT BETTER THAN PAPER BOOKS IN ALL RESPECTS.

My primary reason for reading e-books is very simple - space.

Houses in the UK are small. I do not have the space to store 10,000 physical books, but I can easily store 10,000 eBooks on the hard disk of my computer. I have 100 or so of my very, very favourite books as good quality hardbacks; my other books are eBooks. I don't therefore need an eBook reader to be "better" than a paper book, but merely provide an adequate method of reading.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 12-15-2006, 11:45 AM

Honestly, I hadn't thought about searching before, since I would use it mostly for reading fiction. But now that I think about it, I agree that search would make it much easier to find past references in a story that I might have forgotten (yup, I've scanned books for past characters or exchanges too). I'd have to say that I'd consider that as valuable as a bookmarking tool... especially if the search will let you jump directly to the results, and back to your starting point (a browser-type "back" button, basically).

NatCh · 12-15-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_d

I am so frustrated by the very premise of this thread, that... just.... UGH

Sorry 'bout that, alex_d, I didn't mean to cause any hard feelings with the question, just to get an idea of what's desired by folks. Besides, we're always looking for stuff to talk about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_d

There's no reason all of those things can't be included. There's no reason that you can't make a great interface using the 20 buttons available that has options and settings and lets you do and view everything you like while not showing you anything you don't want.

Actually, there are probably any number of reasons, I figured out a while back that just because I can't figure out a reason doesn't mean there isn't one (I'm just not that clever

). Probably even a good one seen from some perspective or other. In this case, my first guess would be resources, and yeah, there probably are some 'blind-spots' on the part of the design team, most people have such blind spots.

For my part, I'd rather have an 'imperfect' device now, than watch them chase the 'perfect' one forever and eternity. That's a moving target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_d

Why can't this device be more like a computer? Why does it have to be dumbed down to the point where even illiterate people can use it?

Well, the obvious answer is that it's not a computer. And I, for one, don't want it to be!

If I was happy with reading on a computer (laptop, pda, tablet), I wouldn't have looked twice at a Reader. Its simplicity and straightforwardness are things I value about it. Could it do more? Sure it could, but it'd be mostly bragware for me, personally. Some basic searching functions would be useful to me on occasion, but the lack isn't really a deal breaker for me.

The idea of the poll was to get a look at what folks mean when they say they want to 'search' (just the term by itself isn't really informative) that's all.

yvanleterrible · 12-15-2006, 01:38 PM

The biggest reading drawback of the current crop of readers is size. Doing only novels is half of all reading applications. Newspapers are not well served and so are'nt magazines, coffe table books, dictionnaries, encyclopediae and my favorite, shop manuals. Good color PDF emplimentation is a must!

Phebe · 12-15-2006, 01:48 PM

A reader has to fit in my purse. Seventy books in my purse, that's what the Sony Reader is and although I want search, I don't want it big and clunky. Right now I put it in my purse spine up and no one will ever steal it: it looks like the world's most boring address book. But there are dozens of best-sellers on it.......

Compactness is important to me. As is the camouflage.

Let's be candid: I can take it into the bathroom at work and no one notices. Carrying a colorful, thick, hardback best-seller? Looks bad.

SoCal Bob · 12-15-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phebe

Let's be candid: I can take it into the bathroom at work and no one notices. Carrying a colorful, thick, hardback best-seller? Looks bad.

A new item to add to the "Does it better than pBooks" list.

alex_d · 12-15-2006, 05:45 PM

Phebe-"although I want search, I don't want it big and clunky...Compactness is important to me."

Me too. I'm glad they dropped the qwerty keyboard the Librie had.

NatCh-"Actually, there are probably any number of reasons, I figured out a while back that just because I can't figure out a reason doesn't mean there isn't one (I'm just not that clever )."

Of course you're right in principle, but I did think about this case. Developer resources definately aren't a reason. It would take one person one week to implement a search that has all of the features listed at the top. Shortcomings of the interface isn't a reason. Sure, the eInk is slow and you have to limit the number of clicks to get anywhere, but the 10 general purpose buttons were a great addition by the hardware designers and solve this problem.

The only reason that Sony might have is a disgusting view that dumbing down an already simple function will help it sell more Readers. Do you agree with that? Would YOU prefer that? This website should take a strong stance against that kind of thinking.

View Poll Results: What do we want from searching?
Jump to Next/Previous occurance of specified string	42	62.69%
A List of all occurrences (nice to have)	10	14.93%
A List of all occurrences (gotta have it)	4	5.97%
A List of all occurrences with page #s (nice to have)	10	14.93%
A List of all occurrences with page #s (gotta have it)	0	0%
A List of all occurrences with surrounding words (nice to have)	9	13.43%
A List of all occurrences with surrounding words (gotta have it)	8	11.94%
I’d like to have a dictionary word lookup function	22	32.84%
I’ve gotta have a dictionary word lookup function	8	11.94%
I want something REALLY complicated and involved from a search, and I want it to happen instantly!	1	1.49%
~ 3 seconds is okay for most searches	8	11.94%
~ 5 seconds is okay for most searches	16	23.88%
~ 10 seconds is okay for most searches	10	14.93%
~ 15 seconds is okay for most searches	1	1.49%
~ 20 seconds is okay for most searches	8	11.94%
I don’t care how long as long as it returns what I want to see	7	10.45%
I don’t have a dog in this hunt, I just want to see the poll results	3	4.48%
(newly added) Repeat last search	24	35.82%
(newly added) Whole word only option	20	29.85%
(newly added) Case sensitive option	14	20.90%
(newly added) I don't want a search function	8	11.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

12-14-2006, 06:01 PM	#16
Dajala Enthusiast Posts: 41 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2006 Device: Palm TX, Sony PRS-505	I don't need a search function but I can see how it could be useful for others, particulary if used for textbooks and non-fiction. I would like a 'next/previous bookmark' button. A dictionary lookup feature similar to the ebookwise is a must. Last edited by Dajala; 12-14-2006 at 06:03 PM. Reason: forgot punctuation

12-15-2006, 03:37 AM	#21
alex_d Addict Posts: 303 Karma: 187 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: Sony Reader	99% of people who use computers didn't read a book. A good interface with descriptive labels and a thoughout structure goes far. Anyway, we're talking search here. A field, a couple check boxes, and a button called Settings will go far enough. Anyone who wouldn't know how to operate that sure as hell isn't buying an ebook reader. This discussion of whether we should literally have 5 options or 2... on this forum... I'm just puzzled EDIT: eh, whatever. the worse the interface, the better the chance the community will make something better. Last edited by alex_d; 12-15-2006 at 04:07 AM.

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12-14-2006, 10:35 PM	#19
alex_d Addict Posts: 303 Karma: 187 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: Sony Reader	I am so frustrated by the very premise of this thread, that... just.... UGH There's no reason all of those things can't be included. There's no reason that you can't make a great interface using the 20 buttons available that has options and settings and lets you do and view everything you like while not showing you anything you don't want. Why can't this device be more like a computer? Why does it have to be dumbed down to the point where even illiterate people can use it?

12-15-2006, 01:08 AM	#20
Leaping Gnome Evangelist Posts: 490 Karma: 1641 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Louisville Device: Sony Reader PRS-500	Computers are the antithesis of ease-of-use. Bookstores have whole departments on how to use a computer, when was the last time you saw a manual on how to use a book? More book-like, less computer-like for me please.

12-15-2006, 03:44 AM	#22
Mycropht Optimist Posts: 77 Karma: 378 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I really believe that e-book device should surpass paper book reading experience in order to be successful. The two features that would do the trick for me are search and dictionary lookup. As already mentioned, what the search should do depends also on a book. Fiction: list of occurrences with few rows of text before and after each occurrence with option to jump to the prev/next page of the results. In case of the Sony Reader, the numbered buttons should be used to jump to a specific result (full page). If jumped to the full page viewing of a specific result, I would like an option to jump to the full page viewing of the previous/next result, back to the results list or back to the original page viewed before the search was requested. Non-fiction: as above + wildcards, relations and just about anything remotely meaningful when searching through a text.

12-15-2006, 11:45 AM	#25
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Honestly, I hadn't thought about searching before, since I would use it mostly for reading fiction. But now that I think about it, I agree that search would make it much easier to find past references in a story that I might have forgotten (yup, I've scanned books for past characters or exchanges too). I'd have to say that I'd consider that as valuable as a bookmarking tool... especially if the search will let you jump directly to the results, and back to your starting point (a browser-type "back" button, basically).

12-15-2006, 01:38 PM	#27
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	The biggest reading drawback of the current crop of readers is size. Doing only novels is half of all reading applications. Newspapers are not well served and so are'nt magazines, coffe table books, dictionnaries, encyclopediae and my favorite, shop manuals. Good color PDF emplimentation is a must!

12-15-2006, 01:48 PM	#28
Phebe Connoisseur Posts: 85 Karma: 124 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: Sony PRS 500 and Kindle 2 and iPad and iPhone	A reader has to fit in my purse. Seventy books in my purse, that's what the Sony Reader is and although I want search, I don't want it big and clunky. Right now I put it in my purse spine up and no one will ever steal it: it looks like the world's most boring address book. But there are dozens of best-sellers on it....... Compactness is important to me. As is the camouflage. Let's be candid: I can take it into the bathroom at work and no one notices. Carrying a colorful, thick, hardback best-seller? Looks bad.

12-15-2006, 05:45 PM	#30
alex_d Addict Posts: 303 Karma: 187 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: Sony Reader	Phebe-"although I want search, I don't want it big and clunky...Compactness is important to me." Me too. I'm glad they dropped the qwerty keyboard the Librie had. NatCh-"Actually, there are probably any number of reasons, I figured out a while back that just because I can't figure out a reason doesn't mean there isn't one (I'm just not that clever )." Of course you're right in principle, but I did think about this case. Developer resources definately aren't a reason. It would take one person one week to implement a search that has all of the features listed at the top. Shortcomings of the interface isn't a reason. Sure, the eInk is slow and you have to limit the number of clicks to get anywhere, but the 10 general purpose buttons were a great addition by the hardware designers and solve this problem. The only reason that Sony might have is a disgusting view that dumbing down an already simple function will help it sell more Readers. Do you agree with that? Would YOU prefer that? This website should take a strong stance against that kind of thinking.

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