[OFFICIAL] Why did Kobo change the Sleep/Power Off behaviour? - Page 2

kiwikobo · 07-03-2010, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymohr

The way I look at it is this:
-if I send it to sleep, leave it sleeping until I wake it or turn it off.
-if it falls asleep, then it is OK to power it off if I don't come back in time.

The way I look at it is like any other piece of hardware. Wherever I leave it, leave it like that, unless I tell you in software that I'd like it to do something else.

There is no problem having this default to either sleep or off (for new users), but the Kobo is unique in my experience in going to sleep and then off without me being able to do anything about it. Computers, ipods, phones... Even my coffee machine for goodness' sake has an adjustable sleep/timeout.

fred_yu_job · 07-03-2010, 07:22 AM

Jordan,
Thanks for the explaination. and caring about the posts here is appreciated.
BUT, please don't take too much concern for the rantings here!
Your decision should be made as a result of marketing, about study of other similar products.
let's say in this way, itouch is the leader of the market, how is itouch hundling sleep/shutdown issue? why don't kobo just follow it?
how many other ereader auto-shutdown without user's option? if the answer is 0, then kobo should think: wait a minute..why?....

JCKobo · 07-03-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterT

Jordan; thanks for the discussion here. I do get a nice warm fuzzy feeling about Kobo, it's device and it's staff. Any openings?

Peter, we're always hiring - check out http://kobobooks.com/jobs, or send your resume to jobs@kobobooks.com

mylesau · 07-03-2010, 08:59 AM

If the power on time can be reduced, say by half or more, then there would be no need for the sleep mode. As it stands I really cannot see any value in the sleep mode other than locking the buttons - what other purpose does it server? - only of value to those who put the reader down (or pack it away) and pick it up again within 15 minutes. How many people do that on a regular occurrence? If you put it down for say 5 minutes, would you bother putting it into sleep mode? If it's just to lock the buttons, why not just leave the current page displayed for the 15 minutes - perhaps with a little lock symbol top right.

I'd suggest focusing more on reducing the power on time and doing away with the whole sleep thing - and bring back the cover as priority number 1

TallMomof2 · 07-03-2010, 09:07 AM

Add me to the list of people who want a sleep only option. My battery life (after the first recharge after the initial charge) has been fine. Either that or greatly reduce the boot time. Thanks for the update since it fixes my biggest problem, the ePub font issue.

JCKobo · 07-03-2010, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mylesau

If the power on time can be reduced, say by half or more, then there would be no need for the sleep mode. As it stands I really cannot see any value in the sleep mode other than locking the buttons - what other purpose does it server? - only of value to those who put the reader down (or pack it away) and pick it up again within 15 minutes. How many people do that on a regular occurrence? If you put it down for say 5 minutes, would you bother putting it into sleep mode? If it's just to lock the buttons, why not just leave the current page displayed for the 15 minutes - perhaps with a little lock symbol top right.

I'd suggest focusing more on reducing the power on time and doing away with the whole sleep thing - and bring back the cover as priority number 1

This is kind of technical, but by putting it in sleep mode, we can literally drop the power consumption to it's minimal draw possible on the hardware.

Limiting the wake option to the power button let's us get even less power consumption. If we left it on the same screen, how would you know to press the power button?

JCKobo · 07-03-2010, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallMomof2

Add me to the list of people who want a sleep only option. My battery life (after the first recharge after the initial charge) has been fine. Either that or greatly reduce the boot time. Thanks for the update since it fixes my biggest problem, the ePub font issue.

Sorry, I want to clarify this a bit, since I don't think it came across properly in my first post.

It isn't the lifetime of how long the device lasts on a single charge. It is how many times the device can be charged and discharged. The battery can only do that so many times, and doing it over and over again can greatly reduce the lifespan of your Kobo

Pookeysgirl · 07-03-2010, 09:45 AM

And the short version for those who don't want to read that whole thing:
- We want to let you change the off screen to a cover, and will in our next update.
- We will try to speed up the boot time, so powering off isn't such a pain.
- We can't change the sleep/power duration as it will eat into your batteries natural life. If you don't care about that, let us know and maybe we can find a solution.

Thanks,
Jordan Christensen
Product Manager
Kobo Inc.[/QUOTE]

Is there going to be anything done about line spacing? Thanks

EricLandes · 07-03-2010, 10:14 AM

Jordan - thanks a ton on the feedback. Glad to hear the next update will return the off-mode book covers. My 6 year old daughter (in particular) loves that feature, and it's a favorite of mine as well.

I'm with the bulk of the commenters here in that the main resistance to the non-configurable off-mode is that it takes a while to boot up, and you still don't end up where you previously were.

I'm okay with the forced off-mode if you can either improve the boot speed, or boot us back to where we were when the device went to sleep. If not, I'd prefer the previously mentioned manual sleep that stays in sleep mode.

On a slightly different tangent, you've mentioned that Kobo has configured the sleep/off behavior to minimize battery drain. Any chance you could post battery drain numbers in each state? I think having the data will let us on MobileRead understand the situation better.

Thanks!

fred_yu_job · 07-03-2010, 11:59 AM

Looks like the solution for the power saving is: force my kobo to be shutdown after 30 minutes idle, I can do it myself....but...most likely, I don't want to.

the hatter · 07-03-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCKobo

This is kind of technical, but by putting it in sleep mode, we can literally drop the power consumption to it's minimal draw possible on the hardware.

Ok, then why does the Kobo need to power fully off after 15 minutes, if it is already consuming minimal power in sleep mode? I would really like a sleep mode that stays that way. I know that's how the Kindle behaves (ie. you can just leave it permanently in sleep mode, so it starts within 1-2 seconds when you want to read again). It must be also be possible to do this with the Kobo.

plaid · 07-03-2010, 05:04 PM

I just want to repeat what another person mentioned earlier, please change the bootup behavior or add an option to the bootup for it to go directly to where you left off. So if you had a book open, it would bootup to your current page in the book. If you had the I'm Reading page open it would bootup to that etc. This would already make the bootup seem quicker. Then if you improved the actual bootup time a little, I think this would fix most peoples issue with the sleep/shutdown behavior.

Pookeysgirl · 07-03-2010, 05:37 PM

If you had the I'm Reading page open it would bootup to that etc. This would already make the bootup seem quicker. Then if you improved the actual bootup time a little, I think this would fix most peoples issue with the sleep/shutdown behavior.[/QUOTE]

Mine opens to the "I'm reading" page every time I turn it back on. Where does yours open up to? Just curious.

tpw · 07-03-2010, 06:44 PM

Hi jordan

It seems to me that there is largely a consensus on this thread (and other threads).

1 - People don't like the auto power off, and want a sleep mode that continues. Regardless of boot speed it will never be as fast as a resume from sleep.

2 - People are willing to trade slightly reduced battery lifetime for greatly increased usability. It's my device, let me worry about how long it lives.

3 - People resent the attitude that the engineering team are dictating a non configurable user experience based on some perception of a largely ignorant majority of users.

I looked long and hard on this form and never saw a single post in which a user worried about the lifetime of the battery itself (only the time between charges). And yet you've gone to great lengths to implement a 'feature' which no-one asked for and which is degrading the user experience for many of us. It seems, dare I say it, rather autocratic. If I wanted that, I would have bought an iPad. You don't want resentment from your customers.

You have a great resource on these forums, please don't ignore a consensus opinion just because it differs from your engineering team.

fred_yu_job · 07-03-2010, 07:29 PM

Talking about the power management method, better just follow the industry standard if you don't have proven theory for a new way.

07-03-2010, 07:22 AM	#17
fred_yu_job Connoisseur Posts: 99 Karma: 94636 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: kobo	Jordan, Thanks for the explaination. and caring about the posts here is appreciated. BUT, please don't take too much concern for the rantings here! Your decision should be made as a result of marketing, about study of other similar products. let's say in this way, itouch is the leader of the market, how is itouch hundling sleep/shutdown issue? why don't kobo just follow it? how many other ereader auto-shutdown without user's option? if the answer is 0, then kobo should think: wait a minute..why?.... Last edited by fred_yu_job; 07-03-2010 at 07:40 AM.

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07-03-2010, 08:59 AM	#19
mylesau Enthusiast Posts: 30 Karma: 12 Join Date: May 2010 Device: Kobo	If the power on time can be reduced, say by half or more, then there would be no need for the sleep mode. As it stands I really cannot see any value in the sleep mode other than locking the buttons - what other purpose does it server? - only of value to those who put the reader down (or pack it away) and pick it up again within 15 minutes. How many people do that on a regular occurrence? If you put it down for say 5 minutes, would you bother putting it into sleep mode? If it's just to lock the buttons, why not just leave the current page displayed for the 15 minutes - perhaps with a little lock symbol top right. I'd suggest focusing more on reducing the power on time and doing away with the whole sleep thing - and bring back the cover as priority number 1

07-03-2010, 09:07 AM	#20
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	Add me to the list of people who want a sleep only option. My battery life (after the first recharge after the initial charge) has been fine. Either that or greatly reduce the boot time. Thanks for the update since it fixes my biggest problem, the ePub font issue.

07-03-2010, 09:45 AM	#23
Pookeysgirl Wizard Posts: 1,705 Karma: 12696746 Join Date: May 2010 Device: K3, Kobo Mini	And the short version for those who don't want to read that whole thing: - We want to let you change the off screen to a cover, and will in our next update. - We will try to speed up the boot time, so powering off isn't such a pain. - We can't change the sleep/power duration as it will eat into your batteries natural life. If you don't care about that, let us know and maybe we can find a solution. Thanks, Jordan Christensen Product Manager Kobo Inc.[/QUOTE] Is there going to be anything done about line spacing? Thanks

07-03-2010, 10:14 AM	#24
EricLandes Connoisseur Posts: 95 Karma: 8282 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Kindle PW, Kobo Aura HD, Galaxy Note 10.1	Jordan - thanks a ton on the feedback. Glad to hear the next update will return the off-mode book covers. My 6 year old daughter (in particular) loves that feature, and it's a favorite of mine as well. I'm with the bulk of the commenters here in that the main resistance to the non-configurable off-mode is that it takes a while to boot up, and you still don't end up where you previously were. I'm okay with the forced off-mode if you can either improve the boot speed, or boot us back to where we were when the device went to sleep. If not, I'd prefer the previously mentioned manual sleep that stays in sleep mode. On a slightly different tangent, you've mentioned that Kobo has configured the sleep/off behavior to minimize battery drain. Any chance you could post battery drain numbers in each state? I think having the data will let us on MobileRead understand the situation better. Thanks!

07-03-2010, 11:59 AM	#25
fred_yu_job Connoisseur Posts: 99 Karma: 94636 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: kobo	Looks like the solution for the power saving is: force my kobo to be shutdown after 30 minutes idle, I can do it myself....but...most likely, I don't want to.

07-03-2010, 05:04 PM	#27
plaid Zealot Posts: 100 Karma: 5434 Join Date: Sep 2004 Device: Kobo eReader	I just want to repeat what another person mentioned earlier, please change the bootup behavior or add an option to the bootup for it to go directly to where you left off. So if you had a book open, it would bootup to your current page in the book. If you had the I'm Reading page open it would bootup to that etc. This would already make the bootup seem quicker. Then if you improved the actual bootup time a little, I think this would fix most peoples issue with the sleep/shutdown behavior.

07-03-2010, 05:37 PM	#28
Pookeysgirl Wizard Posts: 1,705 Karma: 12696746 Join Date: May 2010 Device: K3, Kobo Mini	If you had the I'm Reading page open it would bootup to that etc. This would already make the bootup seem quicker. Then if you improved the actual bootup time a little, I think this would fix most peoples issue with the sleep/shutdown behavior.[/QUOTE] Mine opens to the "I'm reading" page every time I turn it back on. Where does yours open up to? Just curious.

07-03-2010, 06:44 PM	#29
tpw Zealot Posts: 107 Karma: 250 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Brisbane, Australia Device: Kobo, Sony PRS650	Hi jordan It seems to me that there is largely a consensus on this thread (and other threads). 1 - People don't like the auto power off, and want a sleep mode that continues. Regardless of boot speed it will never be as fast as a resume from sleep. 2 - People are willing to trade slightly reduced battery lifetime for greatly increased usability. It's my device, let me worry about how long it lives. 3 - People resent the attitude that the engineering team are dictating a non configurable user experience based on some perception of a largely ignorant majority of users. I looked long and hard on this form and never saw a single post in which a user worried about the lifetime of the battery itself (only the time between charges). And yet you've gone to great lengths to implement a 'feature' which no-one asked for and which is degrading the user experience for many of us. It seems, dare I say it, rather autocratic. If I wanted that, I would have bought an iPad. You don't want resentment from your customers. You have a great resource on these forums, please don't ignore a consensus opinion just because it differs from your engineering team.

07-03-2010, 07:29 PM	#30
fred_yu_job Connoisseur Posts: 99 Karma: 94636 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: kobo	Talking about the power management method, better just follow the industry standard if you don't have proven theory for a new way.

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