iBooks 1.1 kills ePub Font Settings? - Page 2

kjk · 06-24-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

But the idea is good. To allow a choice of user-defined or creator-defined styles, even if the current implementation is lousy.

I think this is the whole idea-let users have the flexibility to choose. And I'm guessing its a more complex issue than a simple button or font selection menu.

What bothers me I guess is that one of the beauties of CSS is the flexibility inherent in the system. To ignore certain CSS elements that are valid just makes the standard less portable, and less flexible.

murraypaul · 06-24-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Quote:

As I said my preferred option would be something like the B&N app does, to allow a choice of using the hardcoded styles or allowing the user to override them.

The way the B&N app does it is awful. Publisher style or user style, makes no matter, it's just an awful read because the app is awful.

Haven't we already had this discussion?

murraypaul · 06-24-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Quote:

But that isn't isn't the same as them forcing a style choice on the user, they are just preventing someone else forcing a choice on the user. The user can still make their own choice.
As I said my preferred option would be something like the B&N app does, to allow a choice of using the hardcoded styles or allowing the user to override them.

That depends on your definition of "user"

I'm the user, I'm the one reading the book.

kovidgoyal · 06-24-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I'm the user, I'm the one reading the book.

Yes but you're an unimaginative old fart

You don't want to customize your reading experience.

I'm a user, I'm reading the book, but I want to customize my reading experience.

I'm a user, I'm creating a book, I want creative freedom when doing so. If a user reading the book I've created wants to override my choices, he should have that option. But that doesn't mean I should not have the freedom to create a look and feel that I think best suits my content.

murraypaul · 06-24-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

Yes but you're an unimaginative old fart

You don't want to customize your reading experience.

I'm a user, I'm reading the book, but I want to customize my reading experience.

I'm not sure I'm communicating effectively.
I do want to be able to customise my reading experience. That is why I don't want the book creator to be able to force me to read in a serif font if I would pefer sans-serif, for example.

Quote:

I'm a user, I'm creating a book,

At this point, you might be a user of something, but it isn't an iPad/Kindle/Nook/etc...

Quote:

I want creative freedom when doing so. If a user reading the book I've created wants to override my choices, he should have that option. But that doesn't mean I should not have the freedom to create a look and feel that I think best suits my content.

Which (at the risk of JSWolf making the same complaint for the third time), my ideal solution would be something like what the B&N app does, although not with their implementation.
But if I have to choose between the creator setting styles and me as the reader setting them, I'll choose me.

kjk · 06-24-2010, 12:16 PM

More weirdness with 1.1:
http://waltshiel.com/2010/06/22/ipad...sign-problems/

Quote:

Books in ePUB that, just yesterday, looked great on the iPad now have aggravating format problems. The main issue seems to be with centered text.

He has a fix:
http://waltshiel.com/2010/06/23/one-...ering-problem/

Quote:

Rather than defining one style that defines the font properties, the margins, and the text-align properties, I chose to define a “center” style that defines only the text-align and margin properties and then also defined a font style separately that could be applied using a <span> tag.

JSWolf · 06-24-2010, 12:18 PM

Actually, me as the reader does set the styles I want. I go into the CSS and edit it as I want. And if I decide I want header/chapter titles to be sans-serif, that's what I want and should get.

kovidgoyal · 06-24-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I'm not sure I'm communicating effectively.
I do want to be able to customise my reading experience. That is why I don't want the book creator to be able to force me to read in a serif font if I would pefer sans-serif, for example.

Sigh. This isn't about setting the overall font of the book. It's about setting different fonts for different elements in the book. Whether you as a reader wants to do it or you as a creator wants to do it, iBooks wont let either of you do it.

And as I really dont want to waste anymore of my life on Apple, this is my last post in this thread.

Yoshi 1080 · 06-24-2010, 04:03 PM

I’m sure this is just a bug that will be fixed in the next release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

And as I really dont want to waste anymore of my life on Apple, this is my last post in this thread.

Don’t get this the wrong way, but that kinda explains the mediocre UI calibre has on the Mac.

kjk · 06-24-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi 1080

I’m sure this is just a bug that will be fixed in the next release.

That would be great, if true. As I've noted before, iBooks seems like a work in progress. But that isn't much comfort to book designers who are trying to hit a moving target when trying to format their books to what they hoped was a standard.

And it makes me reluctant to mess around with the books I've done some handcrafting on for fun, until things shake out.

Bremen Cole · 06-24-2010, 04:43 PM

kjk said "iBooks seems like a work in progress"

It not only seems like a work in progress, it IS a work in progress. Just as any currently developed software is supposed to be. It is especially true with iBooks because it is only 3 months old. It is not a program that has been around for years..... it is really still taking baby steps at this point.....

I really don't like iBooks all that much, but I figure as it matures it will be better.

Bremen Cole · 06-24-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi 1080

Don’t get this the wrong way, but that kinda explains the mediocre UI calibre has on the Mac.

+1 ... I don't have a Mac (thank God

) but a negative attitude will certainly not help a developer respond to the market. Frustration is one thing, but blanket negative statements are simply not professional.....

kovidgoyal · 06-24-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi 1080

Don’t get this the wrong way, but that kinda explains the mediocre UI calibre has on the Mac.

No, the UI of calibre on the Mac is a function of the fact that OS X is a niche market. As a result, the cross platform toolkit that calibre uses for its UI (its UI contains almost zero platform specific code) does not support OS X well.

@Bremen Cole: Fortunately, I don't let my supposed "professional" status prevent me from having, and expressing, my opinions. But perhaps, you confuse corporate speech with professionalism.

Yoshi 1080 · 06-25-2010, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kovidgoyal

No, the UI of calibre on the Mac is a function of the fact that OS X is a niche market. As a result, the cross platform toolkit that calibre uses for its UI (its UI contains almost zero platform specific code) does not support OS X well.

Well that’s exactly what I said.

kovidgoyal · 06-25-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshi 1080

Well that’s exactly what I said.

No, you implied that calibre's UI is a result of choices I have made as a result of my antipathy for Apple.

On the contrary the only choice I have made is to minimize platform specific code in calibre.

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06-24-2010, 12:18 PM	#22
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,796 Karma: 146391129 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	Actually, me as the reader does set the styles I want. I go into the CSS and edit it as I want. And if I decide I want header/chapter titles to be sans-serif, that's what I want and should get.

06-24-2010, 04:43 PM	#26
Bremen Cole Wizard Posts: 1,115 Karma: 2718 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Texas Device: iPad	kjk said "iBooks seems like a work in progress" It not only seems like a work in progress, it IS a work in progress. Just as any currently developed software is supposed to be. It is especially true with iBooks because it is only 3 months old. It is not a program that has been around for years..... it is really still taking baby steps at this point..... I really don't like iBooks all that much, but I figure as it matures it will be better.

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