Firmware Update can we get some consolidation of the 2.5 upgrade threads (any moderator?)

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by =X=

I never mentioned the WIKI's page, since I rarely use them. Though referring somebody to a sub-forum in my mind is the same referring them to a WIKI page. Personally I find many Subform threads and WIKI pages to be out of date. Chances are most people will post a new thread because their too lazy to look or feel the old threads are stale.


What I was referring to was their filter threads where you can hide/enable posts based on the prefix. See the Sony/Apple/eBook Sub-Forums for an example
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/for...c&daysprune=-1


=X=

sorry... was in a hurry and missed a quote. I do want to add however, that the accesories (for instance) folder had new stuff about every day

Originally Posted by pilotbob

... Also... having 11 stickies here is kind of silly. Perhaps that can be paired down. Those that want to help clean things up could perhaps come up with 3-4 threads that could be sticked....

... if one thing that is constantly posted is about Covers perhaps there should be a sticked thread about covers / accessories.

BOb

I think that is rather shortsighted and a rather blunt take on things. as I recall when the changes were made we were told to wait awhile and see if we like it. WE DON'T! how/why is it a problem for you? Bob?

[test011]

By the way, can you search by number? like "2.5.3"?
I mean, without proper tag, I couldn't search any Kindle firmware 2.5.3 related posts. (and if the tag is in number, is it still searchable?)

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I think that is rather shortsighted and a rather blunt take on things. as I recall when the changes were made we were told to wait awhile and see if we like it. WE DON'T! how/why is it a problem for you? Bob?

Well..to be blunt, I count you... erm... ok... that's 1...

I counted one other person, X, that saw goods and bads to it.

Also, people that don't like something are the ones you hear from. The ones that do like it are silent. So, a vocal minority doesn't mean that is what "everyone" wants. Oh and before you start a poll keep in mind that only a small percentage of people will vote in it... and most people that vote will be people that don't like it.

Also... I did MUCH analyzing of what topics were in the sections. Did you? While there were some posts that were put in the correct sub-sections... there were just as many if not more that fit into those sections that were in the top level section.

Does all this mean that sub-sections can't be added back? Well... no.

All that said... you still didn't answer my question. What is the advantage of dozens of threads about cases being in a certain section bring? It is still a mess. Also... don't think if that sub-section is added back that everyone will post there... (see above comment) since as you yourself stated it is usually newbees that don't really know there way around the forum sections and probably won't even notice the sub-section(s).

Also.. as Harry said... there are several organizational options that haven't been tried like pre-fixes and tags.

BOb

[kindlekitten]

there are other people that dislike the "new" arrangement. in fact one was a very valued member of these forums that you managed to run off so that voice isn't being heard here. and there are the voices in my PMs (not to be confused with the voices in my head)

as for the sub forums... newbie comes in, asks what is the best... yada yada... oldies say WELCOME!!! look up there ^ and see whatever it is you are talking about such as cases, lights, sleeves and so on. now we have update issues which, as I already mentioned are overwhelming the front page of the kindle section. this could be its own sub topic; "anything regarding failed, working, avoided and so on updates, look in this section!!!"

were we, the users of this forum asked; "hey users! what changes would you like to see to the Kindle forum?" nope. woke up one day and it was gone. I don't know if you are Mr. Kindle moderator or how it works but it seems that we could have been consulted first. did it cause a particular glitch in the software? were there maintenance issues? of course I cannot speak to how active the other areas were as they are GONE now, I wasn't prepared to take note of the sections and how active they were. certainly, there probably were sections that were dead. it is however obvious that there are topics which are recurring which could be nicely associated together;
accessories
updates
can I use the library/ other sources/ calibre
kindle developer
just to name a few. it's not yet 6, haven't had coffee and have a kitten climbing my head. I think it's only FAIR that those of us who use the forum be listened to, taken into consideration and so on as to what works here

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

as for the sub forums... newbie comes in, asks what is the best... yada yada... oldies say WELCOME!!! look up there ^ and see whatever it is you are talking about such as cases, lights, sleeves and so on.

So now you say "you'll find the information in this wiki article" and give them a URL for the appropriate article in the wiki. If you want that information to be there, it's up to you to write it. Information which has permanent "reference" value really does belong in the wiki, not in the forums.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by HarryT

So now you say "you'll find the information in this wiki article" and give them a URL for the appropriate article in the wiki. If you want that information to be there, it's up to you to write it. Information which has permanent "reference" value really does belong in the wiki, not in the forums.

I am not interested or qualified in writing a wiki.

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH HAVING IT THE WAY IT WAS!!!????

minus of course the dead topics?

[poohbear_nc]

I've been reading (and posting) threads on this topic for a while, and have communicated with the mods about this topic, and agreed to "wait and see" how the new scheme worked out. This thread is becoming a bit heated - I would like to weigh in now and perhaps suggest a range of possible solutions. And suggest all parties take a few calming breaths - this will be a lengthy post.

Given: A single organizational scheme will never make everyone happy. Neither the creators nor the users.
Given: After launching a new organizational scheme (which I know took a lot of work), no one welcomes criticism or demands to "make it like it used to be."
Given: The majority of users who visit this forum occasionally for information could care less what it looks like as long as they can quickly find accurate information.
Given: There are a core group of members (mods & users) that have come to care deeply about MR as a whole, and the particular sections they frequently visit - and are vocal in their suggestions on how to make it work better.
Given: MR is a global forum which tries to accommodate the needs of a diverse audience.

So:
MR mods have stated they do not want to re-instate the sub-forum organization scheme, and they want to decrease the number of "sticky" threads, moving static information to wikis. Arguing about a done decision at this point won't solve anything.

OK:
What are the options?
1. Get mad and quit MR or get banned from MR?
2. Work with the mods - sharing suggestions, viewpoints, and opinions? Patience needed on both sides here. And clear communication - if a suggestion is not appropriate, indicate clearly and move on. Don't


Finally:
Here are my thoughts --
1. An earlier post pointed out that no one else was jumping on this thread - does anyone else really care? It's had a lot of views. Were people put off posting by the obviously personal & emotional tone of some of the posts? Probably.
2. Could we create a thread inviting people's opinions on the current organization - and see if this is really an issue? Gather ideas?

Or:
1. Implement the suggestion to label threads (as done in the Apple forum where threads are labelled "iPod" or "iPad") and develop a set of labels appropriate to the Kindle forum ("update" "hack" "case" "skin" etc.) And then see what the response is from the users.

As has been pointed out, every time a new Kindle model is released a wave of newbies asks the same questions over & over again - just like the same questions get asked in the "Which One Should I Buy" forum - and the kind folk continue answering them, and the older posts move off into the archives.

I think one area of posts does deserve a sub-section. You kept the Developers Corner separate - which IMHO is a good thing - those posters are programmers speaking their own language - and everyday folk don't care or can't understand what they're doing.
I think a separate area would be beneficial for Updates & Hacks - until Amazon ever launches its apps, screensaver & font hacks have become very popular with people who are not programmers and need detailed & accurate information to avoid bricking their Kindles- and these hacks need to be coordinated with the Updates. Having all the information together - with links to the software to add or remove the hacks - could be very helpful. Also, the DRM information would belong in this area - since it too is linked with the updates.

Most of the "sticky" threads could be Wiki-ed or eliminated. The "Free & Inexpensive" thread largely duplicates posts in the "Deals, Freebies" forum. Other "sticky" threads got cluttered with "thank you - this is great" posts, that don't really add to their informational content. I would be willing to work with MR with this area. I've never written a Wiki, but am willing to learn.

Whew - long winded post - but I've been thinking on this since the re-organization - and wanted to share some ideas - feel free to use, ignore, or alter - I'm here to help.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

1. Implement the suggestion to label threads (as done in the Apple forum where threads are labelled "iPod" or "iPad") and develop a set of labels appropriate to the Kindle forum ("update" "hack" "case" "skin" etc.) And then see what the response is from the users.

This would be the best solution, in our view. As you can see if you look at the Apple or the Sony forum, it does work, and a forum view can be filtered by thread prefix.

I think a separate area would be beneficial for Updates & Hacks - until Amazon ever launches its apps, screensaver & font hacks have become very popular with people who are not programmers and need detailed & accurate information to avoid bricking their Kindles- and these hacks need to be coordinated with the Updates. Having all the information together - with links to the software to add or remove the hacks - could be very helpful. Also, the DRM information would belong in this area - since it too is linked with the updates.

This would be a perfect candidate for the wiki, given that it's relatively static information, that you don't want to scroll away out of sight.

Writing wiki articles is just as easy as writing forum posts; it's nothing to be scared away from.

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

were we, the users of this forum asked; "hey users! what changes would you like to see to the Kindle forum?" nope.

I just want to point out that the answer to this is YES. We had a fairly large core group discuss the re-org for several months. We tried to do our best to incorporate all the suggestions, but as you can imagine many of them were conflicting ideas.

BOb

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by poohbear_nc

Whew - long winded post - but I've been thinking on this since the re-organization - and wanted to share some ideas - feel free to use, ignore, or alter - I'm here to help.

Thanks for the great post.

BOb

[pilotbob]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH HAVING IT THE WAY IT WAS!!!????

Ok... I'm pretty sure this question was already answered.

BOb