After keeping us waiting for a century, Mark Twain will finally reveal all

[Shaggy]

The answer is fairly simple.

If the Publisher thinks they can make money off of this, then they'll sue you. At that point it doesn't really matter what the actual copyright status is. They have a lot more money to spend on lawyers to drag it through the courts than you likely can afford to spend defending yourself. Therefore, the Publisher will get their way regardless of the copyright status.

In today's world the most important question isn't "is this public domain" but rather "is there commercial value". If the answer to the latter is "yes", then whoever has the most money to spend on their lawyers will win.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

When copyright lasted for 56 years maximum, people wrote books. Good books. The tripling (or more) of copyright terms does not seem to have resulted in a similar tripling of the quality of books.

No, but it probably did result in tripling (at least) of the industries profit margins.

This expansion into the lifetimes of people who weren't even born when the author's grandchildren died of old age benefits one group, and one group only: corporations. Like so many other things, the interests of the citizen have become secondary to the interests of the corporation. It's the golden rule again: he who has the gold makes the rules.

Copyright law was meant "to promote the progress of science and the useful arts" -- that is, to serve the public good. Making it possible to earn a living as an author ensured that the public would have books to read.

Exactly. Copyright stopped having anything to do with "promoting the progress of science and the useful arts" a long time ago. Modern copyright has nothing to do with that anymore. Today, it's only about promoting the progress of the distribution industry, and increasing their bottom line (to the overall detriment of both consumers and artists).

[Greg Anos]

Here's the Canadian answer from the Canadian copyright law (googly bits) in the Upload Help forum..


Term of copyright in posthumous works

7. (1) Subject to subsection (2), in the case of a literary, dramatic or musical work, or an engraving, in which copyright subsists at the date of the death of the author or, in the case of a work of joint authorship, at or immediately before the date of the death of the author who dies last, but which has not been published or, in the case of a lecture or a dramatic or musical work, been performed in public or communicated to the public by telecommunication, before that date, copyright shall subsist until publication, or performance in public or communication to the public by telecommunication, whichever may first happen, for the remainder of the calendar year of the publication or of the performance in public or communication to the public by telecommunication, as the case may be, and for a period of fifty years following the end of that calendar year.

sorry folks, copyright in Canada until 2061...

[Iphinome]

If copyright were the least bit sane they would have just said unpublished works produced before the new law was passed would fall under the rules of the copyright law in effect when they were written. Then all we would have to consider is what parts were published and when. We would know the term.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Here's the Canadian answer from the Canadian copyright law (googly bits) in the Upload Help forum..


Term of copyright in posthumous works

7. (1) Subject to subsection (2), in the case of a literary, dramatic or musical work, or an engraving, in which copyright subsists at the date of the death of the author or, in the case of a work of joint authorship, at or immediately before the date of the death of the author who dies last, but which has not been published or, in the case of a lecture or a dramatic or musical work, been performed in public or communicated to the public by telecommunication, before that date, copyright shall subsist until publication, or performance in public or communication to the public by telecommunication, whichever may first happen, for the remainder of the calendar year of the publication or of the performance in public or communication to the public by telecommunication, as the case may be, and for a period of fifty years following the end of that calendar year.

sorry folks, copyright in Canada until 2061...

I don't know where your quote comes from, but I do not believe you are right. From the website of the Canadian Intellectual Property Office:

Posthumous works

These are works that have not been published, performed or delivered in public during the lifetime of the author.

If the work was created after July 25, 1997, the term of copyright protection is the life of the author, the remainder of the calendar year in which the author died, and for 50 years following.

If the work was created before July 25, 1997, three different scenarios can exist:

1. The work of a deceased author that is published, performed or delivered prior to July 25, 1997, will retain copyright from the date of publication, plus 50 years, to the end of that calendar year.
2. The unpublished work of an author who was deceased during the 50 years prior to July 25, 1997, retains copyright until December 31, 1997 (the remainder of the calendar year in which Bill C-32 came into force), plus 50 years following the end of that calendar year.
3. The unpublished work of an author who deceased more than 50 years prior to July 25, 1997, retains copyright until December 31, 1997 (the remainder of the calendar year in which Bill C-32 came into force), plus five years following the end of that calendar year.

Mark Twain's unpublished works fall under (3).

[Iphinome]

Alright just to put this out there, the US law is still murky to me but the Canadian looks clear. Does the act of editing create a new copyright? H ow much of one? And do we have any idea the level of editing done? If the text is public domain and part of it was redacted by the editor does leaving the same piece of text out violate the copyright?

I'm starting to wonder if a lot of trouble could be avoided by someone who lives near where these papers are stored getting permission to make photocopies and sending them to project gutenberg.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

The answer is fairly simple.

If the Publisher thinks they can make money off of this, then they'll sue you. At that point it doesn't really matter what the actual copyright status is. They have a lot more money to spend on lawyers to drag it through the courts than you likely can afford to spend defending yourself. Therefore, the Publisher will get their way regardless of the copyright status.

In today's world the most important question isn't "is this public domain" but rather "is there commercial value". If the answer to the latter is "yes", then whoever has the most money to spend on their lawyers will win.

Unfortunately true! And I suspect there's a boatload of money in this....

[Fat Abe]

Certainly, the entire book should be on the Darknet by year end. The issue of copyright then becomes a moot point.

There was a smothered burst of feminine snickers from behind the screen! All the strength went out of me and I toppled forward like an undermined tower and brought the screen down with my weight, burying the young ladies under it. In their fright they discharged a couple of piercing screams--and possibly others, but I did not wait to count. I snatched my clothes and fled to the dark hall below, Sandy following. I was dressed in half a minute, and out the back way. I swore Sandy to eternal silence, then we went away and hid until the party was over. The ambition was all out of me. I could not have faced that giddy company after my adventure, for there would be two performers there who knew my secret, and would be privately laughing at me all the time. I was searched for but not found, and the bear had to be played by a young gentleman in his civilized clothes. The house was still and everybody asleep when I finally ventured home. I was very heavy-hearted, and full of a sense of disgrace. Pinned to my pillow I found a slip of paper which bore a line that did not lighten my heart, but only made my face burn. It was written in a laboriously disguised hand, and these were its mocking terms:

"You probably couldn't have played bear, but you played bare very well--oh, very very well!"

Bare it all. About half the book has already been published by the North American review. This is no longer an unpublished work.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by Iphinome

Is this public domain? Should it be?

Yes and yes. I live in Continental Europe and copyright is still life + 70 years here for literary works, published or not. Since Twain died in 1910 his work is in the public domain by now. That might not be true for other jurisdictions, of course.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

In today's world the most important question isn't "is this public domain" but rather "is there commercial value". If the answer to the latter is "yes", then whoever has the most money to spend on their lawyers will win.

That is a rather cynical view of things, and one I don't subscribe to entirely. It's also not completely true: there are clear-cut cases where legal representation is only a secondary concern, particularly if you have the case judged on its merits by career judges (no juries in civil cases over here).

Expired copyright is clearly such a case. If somebody still decides to bring a suit it should die in pre-trial stage. In a (half) sane legal environment, anyway.

[BookCat]

Personally, I think it's fair to the author, descendants and readers of the future, for international copyright to be death of the author+50 whether or not the work was published during the author's lifetime.

Unattributed works should be copyright from the estimated time of authorship+70 which would more or less amount to the same time as a work of known authorship.

That's my pennyworth!

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by BookCat

Personally, I think it's fair to the author, descendants and readers of the future, for international copyright to be death of the author+50 whether or not the work was published during the author's lifetime.

Unattributed works should be copyright from the estimated time of authorship+70 which would more or less amount to the same time as a work of known authorship.

That's my pennyworth!

In what way does that promote progress? And how would anyone exercise any rights over something that's unattributed?

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Yes and yes. I live in Continental Europe and copyright is still life + 70 years here for literary works, published or not. Since Twain died in 1910 his work is in the public domain by now. That might not be true for other jurisdictions, of course.

You've missed a point in EU law. The first person to publish an unpublished out-of-copyright work in the EU now has a 25-year "publication right". This is under Council Directive 93/98/EEC of 29 October 1993.

[rogue_librarian]

I stand corrected.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by BookCat

Unattributed works should be copyright from the estimated time of authorship+70 which would more or less amount to the same time as a work of known authorship.

If the author is unknown, who would own the copyright?