Does alcohol still make sense in futuristic fiction? A question from an eBook author. - Page 2

mcgriff · 05-21-2010, 07:39 PM

I think a well-aged bottle of booze could add sentimentality. "To the delight of his fellows, Daniel's discovery of the long abandoned and finely intact cellar promised an evening of la di da...." Ah, well, you get the idea. Adult beverages have been around for thousands of years...no reason to think they won't endure a few more thousand.

Maggie Leung · 05-21-2010, 07:49 PM

I think there will be plenty of booze in the future, because drinking is a sensory experience, as well as a way to get buzzed or loaded. If you could pop a food pill in the future, how many would be willing to give up the pleasure of food?

Jellby · 05-22-2010, 05:12 AM

Sooner than creating a hangover-free new cheap legal drug, humanity is going to evolve (maybe added by gene therapy) into a new hangover-less race

montsnmags · 05-22-2010, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

I think there will be plenty of booze in the future, because drinking is a sensory experience, as well as a way to get buzzed or loaded. If you could pop a food pill in the future, how many would be willing to give up the pleasure of food?

I don't know, Maggie. I see what you're saying (thinking wine and beer tastings and food matchings, etc.), but in the case of your food/food pill scenario, one precludes the other. In the alcohol/pill scenario, a person can still enjoy a (non-alcoholic) drink and all its taste and social sensations while popping a pill for the sensory high desired.

Saying that, I think people will still enjoy alcohol, from a legacy, industrial inertia, marketing, fashion, experiential perspective. So perhaps I contradict myself, Maggie.

Cheers,
Marc (who loves his dessert wines)

sassanik · 05-22-2010, 10:00 PM

I think there will be alcohol in the future, frankly its been around for centuries and I don't see why people would not continue to enjoy it.

I also would think there would be some "illegal" drugs of some sort.

Alcohol maybe change but I would think they would at least have it or something similar.

Amy

Maggie Leung · 05-23-2010, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I don't know, Maggie. I see what you're saying (thinking wine and beer tastings and food matchings, etc.), but in the case of your food/food pill scenario, one precludes the other. In the alcohol/pill scenario, a person can still enjoy a (non-alcoholic) drink and all its taste and social sensations while popping a pill for the sensory high desired.

Saying that, I think people will still enjoy alcohol, from a legacy, industrial inertia, marketing, fashion, experiential perspective. So perhaps I contradict myself, Maggie.

Cheers,
Marc (who loves his dessert wines)

Marc, I think some people drink to enjoy the sensory pleasures of alcohol, others to get drunk and some to do both. I think a pill would be handy for an alcoholic, for instance, to get through the workday, lol. I drink for taste, consistency and such, which includes the taste of the alcohol itself. So taking a pill wouldn't appeal, because I'm not out to get drunk, or even necessarily buzzed, though that can be great. My husband isn't much of a drinker, but is a foodie who cooks a lot with alcohol. No pill will substitute.

I'm not saying there won't be alcohol substitutes or that people won't use 'em. Just saying that there's pleasure in alcohol that can't be substituted with a pill, and having a non-alcoholic drink and taking a pill wouldn't be necessary for some people.

I'm having merlot as I type. Cheers.

montsnmags · 05-23-2010, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

...
I'm having merlot as I type. Cheers.

It's very possible that by then end of my previous post I'd convincingly changed my own opinion to agreement with you.

Or maybe it's just the G&T talking.

Cheers,
Marc

GlenBarrington · 05-23-2010, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randolphlalonde

Actually, I didn't censor the use of alcohol, I replaced the use of other substances WITH the use of alcohol as to keep the hyper-militant anti-drug folks away. It's the use of alcohol in fiction that these people don't have much of a problem with, even with a book series that often crosses over into the YA crowd like mine.

So, as it stand in the books now, alcohol is the substance of choice, and designer substances are what's been muted and substituted out.

I've got to be honest with you, the above statement does not make me want to read your books. You are altering your stories to fit other people's pre-conceived ideas of morality, or social justice or, whatever.

If you don't take the story where it needs to go, I might as well be watching lamestream TV! There are lots of places where I can get politically correct crap. Not so many where I can get an honest opinion about anything.

I understand writing for the young adult market is difficult. My experience as a parent tells me that Teens have a great sensitivity towards other people's bull$hit. (They are less aware of their own, however. And much more forgiving when they DO see it!). They'll be able to tell when a story has been 'manipulated' and they won't just not buy the next book, they won't even finish the first.

GlenBarrington · 05-23-2010, 08:56 AM

It will always be around, if for no other reason it is cheap and easy to make. Plus, the way it is used, means it is more than just mind altering, there is a sensual experience to it. You can smell it, you can taste it, you can feel the burn in your throat, and the warmth in your belly. (And, let's face it, the hangover is a part of that experience.)

If there IS a future where cheap, safe, and effective recreational drugs are available, I see alcohol taking on a special, almost ceremonial status for the future equivalent of the terminally hip. Maybe even mythic or enhanced religious significance. The poor will just get shitfaced.

We need ceremony and tradition in our live, even in the little stuff. If other drugs ARE available recreationally, they will be proprietary in nature and strictly controlled not by government but by the patent attorneys. They won't have any perceived cultural significance (though of course, they WILL have enormous actual cultural significance).

Logseman · 05-23-2010, 09:06 AM

Huxley answered your question with his worldwide known Soma. Recreational drugs, or slightly disguised as such, are the only way to escape certain realities for some people.

DixieGal · 05-23-2010, 09:47 AM

In real life, alcohol will never fade. It is a natural process when grain and fruit meet water. When we go away from this planet, you better believe that hops and grapes and yeast will be onboard the colony ships.

In fiction, why on earth would you eliminate a perfect setting for dialog such as a bar? Nothing could be more boring than a long explanation of why mankind gave up alcohol. Alcohol makes for social settings where the yuppy, cybernetic detective, futuristic woodsman, orphaned heir to the throne, or alien can move the story along by talking to other bar patrons.

Nothing kills a story faster than long paragraphs or pages of explanation about the story's environment. Let you reader discover it through conversation and action.

kacir · 05-23-2010, 10:20 AM

On the other hand, I have recently read a book. An american hard-boiled Private Investigator type of story.
Every single character in a book seemed to be a heavy chain smoker. People smoked EVERYWHERE. In a hotel room, on a bus, in taxi, in movie theater, on police station, on murder scene, even on airplane!
It was just weird, bordering on ridiculous. I know that situation in 1950s was like that, but smoking in that book was so pervasive that it killed my enjoyment of the book.
People still smoke, even today, yet, thank god, smokers have been banished from most of the places.

GlenBarrington · 05-23-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kacir

On the other hand, I have recently read a book. An american hard-boiled Private Investigator type of story.
Every single character in a book seemed to be a heavy chain smoker. People smoked EVERYWHERE. In a hotel room, on a bus, in taxi, in movie theater, on police station, on murder scene, even on airplane!
It was just weird, bordering on ridiculous. I know that situation in 1950s was like that, but smoking in that book was so pervasive that it killed my enjoyment of the book.
People still smoke, even today, yet, thank god, smokers have been banished from most of the places.

Cough! Cough! That second-hand smoking description is offensive! This thread needs to move out doors.

Jaime_Astorga · 05-23-2010, 04:37 PM

As others have said, alcohol has been the drug of choice for humanity for several thousands of years. It is literally older than civilization. Now, this doesn't mean it won't make sense for it to disappear someday, but it is definitely deeply entrenched and it would be hard to imagine it would go away easily. The further removed from present society your setting is (in terms of time, relevant technology, and societal structure), the more believable it will be that alcohol goes away. Still, perhaps your best bet would be to have it be have it diminish in prominence without it being truly gone - somewhat like what has happened to cigarettes.

BooksForABuck · 05-23-2010, 05:02 PM

Realistically I see medical science advancing to the point where 'people' will be able to directly adjust their endorphins, etc. As a result, there will be no need for any drugs. Wine may be enjoyed for the taste but implants will scrub out alcohol poisons. Why use indirect and hangover-inducing drugs when direct application will be possible?

Unless you create your universe with good reasons for throwback technologies.

PS, I enjoy SF from the 1960s when characters are puffing away on cigarettes. It's funny to see how our view of the future is colored by our current reality.

Rob Preece
Publisher, BooksForABuck.com

05-22-2010, 10:00 PM	#20
sassanik Guru Posts: 774 Karma: 1211741 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Oregon Device: EB1150, iPhone, Cool-er Purple, Pocketbook 360, Kindle Fire	yep I think there will be alcohol in the future, frankly its been around for centuries and I don't see why people would not continue to enjoy it. I also would think there would be some "illegal" drugs of some sort. Alcohol maybe change but I would think they would at least have it or something similar. Amy

05-23-2010, 08:56 AM	#24
GlenBarrington Cheese Whiz Posts: 1,986 Karma: 11677147 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Springfield, Illinois Device: Kindle PW, Samsung Tab A 10.1(2019), Pixel 6a.	As far as alcohol goes. . . It will always be around, if for no other reason it is cheap and easy to make. Plus, the way it is used, means it is more than just mind altering, there is a sensual experience to it. You can smell it, you can taste it, you can feel the burn in your throat, and the warmth in your belly. (And, let's face it, the hangover is a part of that experience.) If there IS a future where cheap, safe, and effective recreational drugs are available, I see alcohol taking on a special, almost ceremonial status for the future equivalent of the terminally hip. Maybe even mythic or enhanced religious significance. The poor will just get shitfaced. We need ceremony and tradition in our live, even in the little stuff. If other drugs ARE available recreationally, they will be proprietary in nature and strictly controlled not by government but by the patent attorneys. They won't have any perceived cultural significance (though of course, they WILL have enormous actual cultural significance).

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05-21-2010, 07:39 PM	#16
mcgriff Member Posts: 18 Karma: 40 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Device: Kindle Deux	I think a well-aged bottle of booze could add sentimentality. "To the delight of his fellows, Daniel's discovery of the long abandoned and finely intact cellar promised an evening of la di da...." Ah, well, you get the idea. Adult beverages have been around for thousands of years...no reason to think they won't endure a few more thousand.

05-21-2010, 07:49 PM	#17
Maggie Leung Wizard Posts: 1,449 Karma: 58383 Join Date: Jul 2009 Device: Kindle, iPad	I think there will be plenty of booze in the future, because drinking is a sensory experience, as well as a way to get buzzed or loaded. If you could pop a food pill in the future, how many would be willing to give up the pleasure of food?

05-22-2010, 05:12 AM	#18
Jellby frumious Bandersnatch Posts: 7,543 Karma: 19001583 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Spaniard in Sweden Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura	Sooner than creating a hangover-free new cheap legal drug, humanity is going to evolve (maybe added by gene therapy) into a new hangover-less race

05-23-2010, 09:06 AM	#25
Logseman Orisa Posts: 2,000 Karma: 1035571 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Device: Onyx Poke 5	Huxley answered your question with his worldwide known Soma. Recreational drugs, or slightly disguised as such, are the only way to escape certain realities for some people.

05-23-2010, 09:47 AM	#26
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	In real life, alcohol will never fade. It is a natural process when grain and fruit meet water. When we go away from this planet, you better believe that hops and grapes and yeast will be onboard the colony ships. In fiction, why on earth would you eliminate a perfect setting for dialog such as a bar? Nothing could be more boring than a long explanation of why mankind gave up alcohol. Alcohol makes for social settings where the yuppy, cybernetic detective, futuristic woodsman, orphaned heir to the throne, or alien can move the story along by talking to other bar patrons. Nothing kills a story faster than long paragraphs or pages of explanation about the story's environment. Let you reader discover it through conversation and action.

05-23-2010, 10:20 AM	#27
kacir Wizard Posts: 3,462 Karma: 10484861 Join Date: May 2006 Device: PocketBook 360, before it was Sony Reader, cassiopeia A-20	On the other hand, I have recently read a book. An american hard-boiled Private Investigator type of story. Every single character in a book seemed to be a heavy chain smoker. People smoked EVERYWHERE. In a hotel room, on a bus, in taxi, in movie theater, on police station, on murder scene, even on airplane! It was just weird, bordering on ridiculous. I know that situation in 1950s was like that, but smoking in that book was so pervasive that it killed my enjoyment of the book. People still smoke, even today, yet, thank god, smokers have been banished from most of the places.

05-23-2010, 04:37 PM	#29
Jaime_Astorga Member Retired Posts: 274 Karma: 4446 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Florida Device: PRS-350-SC: Sony Reader Pocket Edition	As others have said, alcohol has been the drug of choice for humanity for several thousands of years. It is literally older than civilization. Now, this doesn't mean it won't make sense for it to disappear someday, but it is definitely deeply entrenched and it would be hard to imagine it would go away easily. The further removed from present society your setting is (in terms of time, relevant technology, and societal structure), the more believable it will be that alcohol goes away. Still, perhaps your best bet would be to have it be have it diminish in prominence without it being truly gone - somewhat like what has happened to cigarettes.

05-23-2010, 05:02 PM	#30
BooksForABuck Zealot Posts: 123 Karma: 150001 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Device: Color Nook, Kindle 2, Palm III, eBookWise, HP Jornada	Realistically I see medical science advancing to the point where 'people' will be able to directly adjust their endorphins, etc. As a result, there will be no need for any drugs. Wine may be enjoyed for the taste but implants will scrub out alcohol poisons. Why use indirect and hangover-inducing drugs when direct application will be possible? Unless you create your universe with good reasons for throwback technologies. PS, I enjoy SF from the 1960s when characters are puffing away on cigarettes. It's funny to see how our view of the future is colored by our current reality. Rob Preece Publisher, BooksForABuck.com

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