Seriousness interesting unreported story regarding the oil spill - Page 2

ardeegee · 05-12-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvick

I didn't know that the field was big enough that they could have moved closer.

That is because it isn't true. There are other reserves that could be tapped closer to shore, but to get this reserve, they have to drill where it is. Here's a Newsweek article about it from more than a year ago: link.
And here from the Washington Post in 2006.

The "oil field" isn't like a big lake of oil underground where you can get to all the oil from any location-- it is more like many scattered puddles, where you drain on puddle then find and drain another, unconnected puddle. BP seemed to think this was a very good puddle.

kindlekitten · 05-12-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardeegee

That is because it isn't true. There are other reserves that could be tapped closer to shore, but to get this reserve, they have to drill where it is. Here's a Newsweek article about it from more than a year ago: link.
And here from the Washington Post in 2006.

The "oil field" isn't like a big lake of oil underground where you can get to all the oil from any location-- it is more like many scattered puddles, where you drain on puddle then find and drain another, unconnected puddle. BP seemed to think this was a very good puddle.

that actually is not the case. hopefully media will start reporting the "rest of the story" sooner than later. they were pretty much forced to drill there

GlennD · 05-12-2010, 01:21 PM

Of course, millions of barrels of oil a year seep into ocean waters naturally from the ocean floor. It's a slower pace of course, and it doesn't have the impact that a large spill all at once has.....but oil spills do occur naturally all the time. There's even places where oil sits right at the surface.

ardeegee · 05-12-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

that actually is not the case. hopefully media will start reporting the "rest of the story" sooner than later. they were pretty much forced to drill there

These are two different issues here. You are addressing the question "could they have drilled somewhere closer to shore than this spot" and are answering, no-- people wouldn't allow them to. I am addressing the question 'could the oil in this spot have been accessed from closer to shore than this spot" and I am saying is no, if you want this reserve of oil, you have to collect it where it is. Yes, there are other areas under the Gulf where there are patches of oil-- but the patches of oil aren't connected together. You drain one, you have to move to the next. The reserve under the blowout is reported to be one of the biggest ones found in a long time in US territory. Which means that companies want it. And if they want it, they have to collect it where it is.

kindlekitten · 05-12-2010, 02:03 PM

that's not what I was told. like I said. it would be nice if main stream media got interested in this story and fleshed it out

GlennD · 05-12-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

that's not what I was told. like I said. it would be nice if main stream media got interested in this story and fleshed it out

This might help a little: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...lagency12.html.

I'm pretty sure you'll see more info as Congress continues to poke and prod (as they should).

Katti's Cat · 05-12-2010, 06:22 PM

Shit happens, in this case BIG shit happened. This is not the time to point fingers but to make sure that the mess is being contained and cleaned up ASAP.

I think there is blame to be heaped on all involved, BP, environmentalist groups, whoever approved building that platform, the third party who build the part that broke, and us consumers. Yep, plenty groups to point the finger at. So once we cleaned up the mess and handed the bill over to BP (sorry , but they will have to pay for the clean up), we can start wagging our fingers in the faces of the guilty.

Lets be realistic here:
BP did not build the platform with the aim for it to break and spill all that oil - they rather collect, process and sell it to us consumer.
The environmentalists wanted to preserve the environment closer to shore - that they now ended up with a bigger mess, was certainly not on their agenda.
The government/s who approved the building of the platform wanted taxes & jobs - not the mess and worries they got now.
The third party who build the part that broke / failed wants to sell more of those thingies (soz don't know what exactly broke) - they did not build it to fail.
Consumer just want jobs, keep taxes in the country and cheaper oil / fuel. They didn't want the mess on their beaches nor having to pay for the clean up and penalties through higher prices.

It was an ACCIDENT. Unfortunate and catastrophic yes. Unavoidable? Maybe, if we could have just taken the human factor totally out of the equation.

BP is trying their best to clean up and will have to pay a hefty fine afterwards.

And no, I don't agree with what is happening and I do not work for BP. But the only way to avoid these things is not to built them in the first place. Otherwise we have to accept that things just can go wrong.

SneakySnake · 05-13-2010, 01:35 AM

I know its a little off topic, but....

Has everyone checked that their local hairdresser is sending off the trimmings to help with the clean up?

http://www.matteroftrust.org/programs/hairmatsinfo.html

PKFFW · 05-13-2010, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katti's Cat

......So once we cleaned up the mess and handed the bill over to BP (sorry , but they will have to pay for the clean up),....

Actually they will just pass the bill onto the consumer, so really it is us that will pay.

Lady Blue · 05-13-2010, 08:30 AM

Just a side note:

It's my understanding that BP did not build the platform or any part thereof.

It's also my understanding that only a handful of the men working it were BP employees.

Not that any of that changes anything, just sayin' . . .

BP is still ultimately responsible.

It still breaks one's heart to know that innocent wildlife will suffer so egregiously, as if it doesn't have enough to contend with just to survive every day even under the best of circumstances.

I keep picturing dolphins and sea turtles trying to come up for air under an oil slick (shutter.)

Katti's Cat · 05-13-2010, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Actually they will just pass the bill onto the consumer, so really it is us that will pay.

Yeah I know - and that sucks big time.

But at least they have to hand out more than they can collect to start of with.

Katti's Cat · 05-13-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Blue

It still breaks one's heart to know that innocent wildlife will suffer so egregiously, as if it doesn't have enough to contend with just to survive every day even under the best of circumstances.

I keep picturing dolphins and sea turtles trying to come up for air under an oil slick (shutter.)

I am with you - heart break at the pictures of the involved and affected wildlife as well as the people who's livelihood is in danger.

GeoffC · 05-16-2010, 11:26 AM

From BBC Web-site Sunday 16th ...

"Scientists have found vast underwater plumes of oil, one 10 miles (16km) long and a mile wide, in the Gulf of Mexico, following last month's rig disaster.

A Georgia University expert warned oxygen levels had fallen 30% in some areas of the sea, and it could take decades to repair the damage."

The Straven · 05-17-2010, 12:50 AM

Hi all,
I enter this thread with trepidation, but I'm compelled ...

"Playing the blame game" is an ill-advised characterization of what we as a nation (I'm speaking of the US) ought to be doing, which if figuring out what went wrong so we can take steps to avoid future disasters. Certainly, tempers are high, but something this grave warrants a close look, angry or not.

In engineering terms, we must find the point (or points) of failure; in risk management terms, we must identify what risk is incidental and what risk is systemic, and take steps to mitigate the risk in the future.

The location of the rig--in deep water--is an incidental risk. This can be mitigated by additional safety precautions, but here we run straight into the systemic risk: BP is a fundamentally unsafe operator, and not only unsafe, but deliberately unsafe due to its haste and miserliness. Furthermore, the regulatory agency failed to enforce safety precautions.

It follows then that even if the rig had been in shallower water, BP would have shortcut appropriate safety measures.

Regardless of who conducted the drilling, BP has direct responsibility for safety. It failed to act safely and to ensure that its contractors were acting safely; instead it prodded them to hurry and failed to provide accurate information. It also failed to develop a contingency plan. The best plan they have? Drill another well, which will take 90 days to complete.

Recent estimates strongly indicate that the rate of spillage is far greater than the 5,000 barrels a day the government estimated. 90 days is a long time. And we don't even know if the relief well will work ...

Katti's Cat · 05-17-2010, 10:10 PM

Hi Straven, good comment.

Who ever is responsible at the end - the outcome is terrible. The damage to environment and peoples lives can hardly be measured in dollars. Lets hope that they find a way to stop the leak real soon.

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05-12-2010, 01:21 PM	#18
GlennD Wizard Posts: 2,118 Karma: 17500000 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: The Pacific NW Device: sony PRS350, iPhone, iPad	Of course, millions of barrels of oil a year seep into ocean waters naturally from the ocean floor. It's a slower pace of course, and it doesn't have the impact that a large spill all at once has.....but oil spills do occur naturally all the time. There's even places where oil sits right at the surface.

05-12-2010, 02:03 PM	#20
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	that's not what I was told. like I said. it would be nice if main stream media got interested in this story and fleshed it out

05-12-2010, 06:22 PM	#22
Katti's Cat Wizard Posts: 2,259 Karma: 175640 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Device: Sony PRS-600	Shit happens, in this case BIG shit happened. This is not the time to point fingers but to make sure that the mess is being contained and cleaned up ASAP. I think there is blame to be heaped on all involved, BP, environmentalist groups, whoever approved building that platform, the third party who build the part that broke, and us consumers. Yep, plenty groups to point the finger at. So once we cleaned up the mess and handed the bill over to BP (sorry , but they will have to pay for the clean up), we can start wagging our fingers in the faces of the guilty. Lets be realistic here: BP did not build the platform with the aim for it to break and spill all that oil - they rather collect, process and sell it to us consumer. The environmentalists wanted to preserve the environment closer to shore - that they now ended up with a bigger mess, was certainly not on their agenda. The government/s who approved the building of the platform wanted taxes & jobs - not the mess and worries they got now. The third party who build the part that broke / failed wants to sell more of those thingies (soz don't know what exactly broke) - they did not build it to fail. Consumer just want jobs, keep taxes in the country and cheaper oil / fuel. They didn't want the mess on their beaches nor having to pay for the clean up and penalties through higher prices. It was an ACCIDENT. Unfortunate and catastrophic yes. Unavoidable? Maybe, if we could have just taken the human factor totally out of the equation. BP is trying their best to clean up and will have to pay a hefty fine afterwards. And no, I don't agree with what is happening and I do not work for BP. But the only way to avoid these things is not to built them in the first place. Otherwise we have to accept that things just can go wrong.

05-13-2010, 01:35 AM	#23
SneakySnake I'm watching you! Posts: 6,113 Karma: 22344652 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sunny Coast Qld, OZ Device: Sony PRS-900(unused lately) iPadAir2, want me Kindle Oasis	I know its a little off topic, but.... Has everyone checked that their local hairdresser is sending off the trimmings to help with the clean up? http://www.matteroftrust.org/programs/hairmatsinfo.html

05-13-2010, 08:30 AM	#25
Lady Blue the snarky blue one Posts: 6,001 Karma: 3877825 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: deep in the heart Device: PRS500, 505 & 600, PRST1 & T2, Kindle PW, Moto Razr, Galaxy Tab 2-10"	Just a side note: It's my understanding that BP did not build the platform or any part thereof. It's also my understanding that only a handful of the men working it were BP employees. Not that any of that changes anything, just sayin' . . . BP is still ultimately responsible. It still breaks one's heart to know that innocent wildlife will suffer so egregiously, as if it doesn't have enough to contend with just to survive every day even under the best of circumstances. I keep picturing dolphins and sea turtles trying to come up for air under an oil slick (shutter.)

05-16-2010, 11:26 AM	#28
GeoffC Chocolate Grasshopper ... Posts: 27,599 Karma: 20821184 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scotland Device: Muse HD , Cybook Gen3 , Pocketbook 302 (Black) , Nexus 10: wife has PW	From BBC Web-site Sunday 16th ... "Scientists have found vast underwater plumes of oil, one 10 miles (16km) long and a mile wide, in the Gulf of Mexico, following last month's rig disaster. A Georgia University expert warned oxygen levels had fallen 30% in some areas of the sea, and it could take decades to repair the damage."

05-17-2010, 12:50 AM	#29
The Straven Nevermore Posts: 63 Karma: 10000 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: the Flint Hills, KS Device: ex-iLiad, DR800SG	Hi all, I enter this thread with trepidation, but I'm compelled ... "Playing the blame game" is an ill-advised characterization of what we as a nation (I'm speaking of the US) ought to be doing, which if figuring out what went wrong so we can take steps to avoid future disasters. Certainly, tempers are high, but something this grave warrants a close look, angry or not. In engineering terms, we must find the point (or points) of failure; in risk management terms, we must identify what risk is incidental and what risk is systemic, and take steps to mitigate the risk in the future. The location of the rig--in deep water--is an incidental risk. This can be mitigated by additional safety precautions, but here we run straight into the systemic risk: BP is a fundamentally unsafe operator, and not only unsafe, but deliberately unsafe due to its haste and miserliness. Furthermore, the regulatory agency failed to enforce safety precautions. It follows then that even if the rig had been in shallower water, BP would have shortcut appropriate safety measures. Regardless of who conducted the drilling, BP has direct responsibility for safety. It failed to act safely and to ensure that its contractors were acting safely; instead it prodded them to hurry and failed to provide accurate information. It also failed to develop a contingency plan. The best plan they have? Drill another well, which will take 90 days to complete. Recent estimates strongly indicate that the rate of spillage is far greater than the 5,000 barrels a day the government estimated. 90 days is a long time. And we don't even know if the relief well will work ...

05-17-2010, 10:10 PM	#30
Katti's Cat Wizard Posts: 2,259 Karma: 175640 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Australia Device: Sony PRS-600	Hi Straven, good comment. Who ever is responsible at the end - the outcome is terrible. The damage to environment and peoples lives can hardly be measured in dollars. Lets hope that they find a way to stop the leak real soon.

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