Why don't people use professional copy editors?

[rhadin]

One of the things that authors rarely do, at least in my experience, and which they should do, is provide the editor with a stylesheet. And if you are going to self-edit, a stylesheet is imperative. If the author provides a detailed stylesheet to an editor, that can save significant sums; it isn't going to reduce the editing costs to near nothing, but it will reduce it.

The stylesheet is many things. But the simplest way to begin is when you first introduce, for example, a character. Describe the character in bullet points on the stylesheet and as you add to the character's persona, add bullet points. This can help prevent name changes, color changes, style changes, etc.

The stylesheet should also list madeup names and terms, their spelling and definition. In addition, it should indicate when (and where) places and characters are introduced and discussed.

The stylesheet should not be a narrative fleshing out of anything. It is for the salient points that need to be consistent chapter to chapter.

You'd be surprised at how many errors you can catch with a good stylesheet by your keyboard.

[William Campbell]

Originally Posted by Michael J Hunt

William, I suppose my point about ethics relates more to academic editing;

Agreed, another ballgame altogether. Like nomesque, I've done my share of tech writing, and for that stuff, if an editor challenged the expertise I hold in my field (pre-media), I'd have to say, "Look, who's the expert here? Fix the grammar all you want, but hey, back off."

So it's different. When you spend more than half your life doing something, you feel strongly about your knowledge. Since fiction writing, for me, doesn't fall in that category, I'll certainly listen to the advice of others.

Originally Posted by Michael J Hunt

I've made a note of Sarah's book and shall definitely take a look at it.

Excellent, and thank you. I have to be honest and offer full disclosure. Of course I recommend the book as one of her clients, but more than that, I am also the book's publisher. For me, the book is that good. I hope you and others agree. It will appear in print within a week or so, Amazon and other outlets. For now, check out Smashwords and the endorsements from Larry Brooks and Elizabeth Lyon. I believe this little jewel will be a hit.

Editor's Lexicon - http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/9842

[William Campbell]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Honestly, I haven't figured out how a small-time writer like myself can make the high cost of editing work...

Keep in mind, what I have described was over the course of many years. It was my choice, and money I could part with here and there. Not easily, but what it would buy was more valuable to me.

I spent the money also because in the beginning, I wasn't confident in my writing. And for good reason -- it wasn't all that great. I told a good story, but how I told it could be better, and I knew that. So I sought the help of others and paid for their expertise. Really, the way I look at it, the money spent was not only to edit the manuscript at hand, it was also money spent educating me as an author, and in the long run, building confidence in my own writing. Today, if nothing else, I've achieved that return on investment.

Will the overall investment ever return? Maybe, maybe not. I think of it as planting a seed. If I've planted well, readers will come along, water my creation, and a tree may flourish. I hope so anyway.

However, seeking a return on investment is not a reason to write, in my humble opinion. Sure, it's great, but that shouldn't be the core reason why we do this. I write because I enjoy the act of creation. Getting paid would be nice, too. I try to have this outlook in all things -- I don't go to work every day for the money. I do it to provide a service to others, to give a job well done. But of course I go to work every day for the money -- if they didn't pay me I wouldn't keep showing up. So it's a mindset, a feeling, that the pay is a reward, just a bonus. It's a good outlook to have. Like in Star Trek, and Gene's vision of a future in which we do the best job we can and for that we are taken care of, rather than a rat-race chasing after the almighty dollar. Doesn't mean it's the way it will be, or it's even any right way to be. It's a state of mind. Do what you enjoy and be proud of getting it done. The pay follows.

Now, back to editing, I'll say this -- it can be done without expensive professional help. But if not an investment of money, it will be your time and effort instead, and the efforts of trusted others. I've noted one means of inexpensive help, the computer reading the work, and the other being an ideal reader. They way I see it, you need two ideal readers, because one of the reasons a pro editor is special is that they are typically wearing more than one hat. I'll explain...

Some people are great with grammar. And some people see plot holes like an eagle sees a rodent from sky-high. But seldom do you find both in one person. Those few becomes editors, but that doesn't mean you can't get close to the same. You just have to find the right two ideal readers and use them both. The grammarian may never notice your story's lack of tension, but will steer your wording back on track. The plot-hound won't even notice your munging of the English language, though will be quick to point out the implausibility of your tale.

The bottom line is, we all need help. To go it alone is one thing, but with the help of others, the work improves. The story deserves the best you can give it. Use the help of others whenever possible and/or affordable. Find others who want to share in your quest. Get them involved. Then judge which kind of reader they are (grammarian/plot-hound), and recruit one of each.

You'll be glad you did.

$3.99 for a good fictive dream - Dead Forever Awakening
Smashwords - http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/8981
Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0034G6628

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Honestly, I haven't figured out how a small-time writer like myself can make the high cost of editing work... it seems to only be workable within higher profits of the Big Publishing system, or suitable to those who can afford to spend a month's mortgage payment (or two) on something without necessarily expecting to make much or any of it back...

That's why professional publishers are there, Steve; they bear the editing cost. You're a decent enough writer, from what I've seen of your work; have you never looked at having your books professionally published?

[Ea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I notice, in various threads, that a number of people have said that they don't have their books professionally edited, and I was wondering what the reason for that was. Is it simply down to the cost involved, or are there other reasons?

That was a good question, Harry, I've been wondering that myself.

Like Lene, I've studied a little editing in order to help improve my English - and I write a little fan fiction, too (in English). Not being a natural born writer/story-teller, as well as a tendency to being quite self-critical, I've learned enough at this point that I find it hard to read something without a sort of 'editor's awareness' (not that I'd be much good as an actual editor ) So at the moment I tend to stay away from self-published works. I do sample them from time to time, but I've yet find anything that was better than 'okay'. Sorry On the upside, it's taught me to appreciate what we could call 'good' or 'literary' authors that much more. Now I can suddenly see why they are considered so good, and I enjoy 'good language' even more.

[Patricia]

You would be surprised at how poor the editing is in some academic texts.

I was reading a biography of the Countess De Martel De Janville, better known as the novelist, Gyp. She is described as "flaunting the law." This is from Oxford University Press.

(Willa Z Silverman: The Notorious Life of Gyp: Right-wing Anarchist in Fin-de-Siècle France, Oxford University Press, 1995.)

[ImogenRose]

Originally Posted by William Campbell

Mood change? (grin)

Seriously, so very true -- the number of details one must carry in the mind's filing cabinet while concocting a story can be overwhelming. Some blunders go undetected for the longest time. I have one such instance that is somewhat amusing, and this shouldn't be too much of a spoiler. Rather than the future, my space opera begins in the past, a long time ago, just not far away, it happens in this galaxy. However, I've portrayed things as being not so different from today, which becomes a fine line to walk. Early in the story, I had the character order French toast for breakfast. Oops. France didn't exist yet, and the blunder went undetected through many drafts. In the end, I settled on "Egg-fried toast," which becomes funny in itself, because now readers ask me, what the heck is that?

For these kind of things, in many cases a talented reader dedicated to finding story flaws can be as helpful as any pro editor, and sometimes even more helpful. In his book "On Writing" Stephen King talks about having an "ideal reader." I agree and follow this advice, adding to the help of pros. My IR is my daughter, who is an avid reader herself. She doesn't find flaws in grammar nearly as much as the blue changing to orange type goofs. She seems to be a magnet for that kind of error, they just scream at her. Every author needs one of these helpers as well, and they are typically a close friend or relative with high interest in what you are trying to accomplish.

Another super effective (and inexpensive) alternative to editing help is having the computer read the manuscript. In fact, even though I seek the services of others, I still use this step and find errors missed by everyone else including myself. We are all human after all, and the computer is not, however it may try.

I use Natural Reader on my PC. The voices are incredibly realistic, I'd say 95% of the time. Only a few weird inflections now and then. Having your own writing read back to you uncovers so many errors, and for me it seems to be a certain group of them. Loud for load, knell/kneel, through/though, all those kinds, and there are plenty. Then there's the case of a word missing altogether, and reading it on screen, on paper, projected on a wall, whatever, every time you read it your mind fills in the blank. Amazing, that mental marvel. But when the computer reads it, whoa, what the heck was that? Highly recommended means of checking your work, and the software is reasonably priced.

$3.99 for a good fictive dream - Dead Forever Awakening
Smashwords - http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/8981
Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0034G6628

What a great idea, I wonder if there is a similar service for the Mac?

[lene1949]

Originally Posted by Patricia

You would be surprised at how poor the editing is in some academic texts.

I was reading a biography of the Countess De Martel De Janville, better known as the novelist, Gyp. She is described as "flaunting the law." This is from Oxford University Press.

What should 'flaunting' have been replaced with... I don't know the word..

[William Campbell]

Re: Natural Reader used to have the computer read back the manuscript...

Originally Posted by ImogenRose

What a great idea, I wonder if there is a similar service for the Mac?

They now have a Mac version.

http://www.naturalreaders.com/mac_per.htm

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by lene1949

What should 'flaunting' have been replaced with... I don't know the word..

It should have been "flouting", which means "ignoring" or "breaking".

[Ea]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It should have been "flouting", which means "ignoring" or "breaking".

Aha! Didn't know that word.

[altworld]

The simple reason for indie Authors is cost, and beware of the predatory scammers. You also have to remember there is a big difference between paying for proof editing, and using an editor. Nine times out of ten employing an editing service will only get your book proof read, with no tips on structure, timing, or including (or removing) details that a real book editor will give you.

Also go a little easier on us Indie novelists who hack, sweet, cry, lose sleep, tear hair our, and shed blood for their creations. Then in an act of insane courage (or just pure insanity) release their creation to the world to see. There are many of us who go over our work constantly to improve it, to catch errors, who bug family members and friends to read and give them feedback on the craziest of passages.

For some of us this the only step we take dragging the stories out of our heads, for some more of us this is the first step on a long road of rejection that will eventually with luck end with glory of being professionally published.

Sorry... I think something got to me in this thread and my rant is now over.

[lene1949]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It should have been "flouting", which means "ignoring" or "breaking".

[Michael J Hunt]

Imogen, an added advantage with a natural reader might be that when you have your own words reflected back to you it has a positive psychological effect; this has been proved by attaching electronic sensors to the listener to measure the brain's reaction. I used to apply this technique therapeutically.

MJ

[TC Beacham]

Probably cost - but I know many who hire professional editors or barter with them for another professional service, which works well too.

I'm more surprised by the number of well-established traditionally published series that are filled with mistakes - maybe it's due to the rush to get out the next title.

As a reader, I don't mind a few mistakes if the story is good - as a writer, I'm more of a perfectionist.