Esperanto characters? - Page 2

pensaro1 · 03-06-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleski

The characters in question are not included in ADE's encoding set (as specified in appendix D of http://www.adobe.com/devnet/pdf/pdfs/PDFReference16.pdf), so you have to embed a font for the glyphs. The problem is that despite embedding a font in the epub he posted the characters still don't show up, even though the font is being used. The plugin's output is mangled in some way that is confusing ADE.

Given that the plugin is also messing up some other things (there's no ncx file and the opf is missing required metadata entries) I don't think it's worth using.

Hi again and thanks again for all the advice. I have again tried using Sigil. Again the result looks fine in Sigil or FBReader but I still get ??? marks in ADE. Maybe it is something to do with the embedded fonts. Do I need to do something in Sigil before creating and saving the file? The truth is I am rapidly losing interest in the epub idea.

wallcraft · 03-06-2010, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensaro1

Hi again and thanks again for all the advice. I have again tried using Sigil. Again the result looks fine in Sigil or FBReader but I still get ??? marks in ADE. Maybe it is something to do with the embedded fonts. Do I need to do something in Sigil before creating and saving the file?

Are you using the beta version? See Sigil 0.2.0 betas available for a recent discussion of embedded fonts now available in Sigil.

Note that charleski demonstrated that Charis is one of the fonts that supports Esperanto.

charleski · 03-06-2010, 12:04 PM

To see Esperanto characters you must embed a font that shows them.
Just take it step-by-step
1) Does the epub I posted show up properly in ADE? It does on my machine.
2) If 1) shows properly, try opening the epub I posted in Sigil and then just paste in your text and save it. Does that show up properly? Sigil 0.18 will preserve any embedded fonts but you have to add them manually (I suspect this is the problem you're still having). If this works then you can just use that epub as a template and paste in text for your final epubs. It has CharisSIL embedded in it, which is free font that you can distribute without any hassles.

The latest version of Atlantis Word Processor handles embedded fonts and the next version of Sigil will as well, though it's still in beta.

paulpeer · 03-06-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensaro1

I have come to the conclusion that the problem is with ADE

Jes, ADE povas montri Esperanto-tekstojn nur en la korpo de la teksto mem (kaj kondiĉe, ke vi uzas enkorpigitajn tiparojn), ne en la enhavtabeloj.

paulpeer · 03-06-2010, 02:43 PM

Here are some free Esperanto books in the ePub format that you can use to test: http://www.esperanto.be/fel/but/e-libro.php#senpaga
You'll see that the corpse of the books show the perfect diacritics on the ĉ, ĝ, ŭ because these books have embedded fonts. But you'll see also that the diacritics do not show in the table of contents. ADE doesn't use the embedded fonts for the TOCs, but it's own fonts. The only solution as far as I know: do not use ADE programs but use e.g. EPUBReader.

pensaro1 · 03-07-2010, 12:13 PM

Hi again. Its great that so many people are trying to help with this .
To charleski - I tried your idea about pasting in esperanto characters. Again OK. in Sigil but not in ADE. Below is the code from the Sigil version, which is 0.1.4 by the way not beta. Is there something in here that I should alter to force ADE to display properly?
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title></title>
<style type="text/css">
/*<![CDATA[*/
@namespace h "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml";
h1
{margin-top:4em;
margin-bottom:1,5em;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:2em;
font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif;
text-align: center;
color:#000000
}
h2
{margin-top:3em;
margin-right:0pt;
margin-bottom:1,5em;
margin-left:0pt;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:1,5em;
font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif;
text-align: center;
color:#000000;
}
h3
{margin-top:2em;
margin-bottom:1,5em;
line-height:normal;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:1,25em;
font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif;
text-align: center;
color:#000000;
}
p
{margin:0pt;
text-indent:1em;
font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif;
text-align: justify;
color:#000000
}
ul
{text-indent:2em;
}
ol
{text-indent:2em;
}
a
{color:#000000;
text-decoration: underline
}

/*SG DO NOT MODIFY.
This style is used by Sigil.
It will be removed on export
along with the "sigilChapterBreak" HR tags. SG*/
hr.sigilChapterBreak {
border: none 0;
border-top: 3px double #c00;
height: 3px;
clear: both;
}
/*]]>*/
</style>
</head>

<body>
<div>
<hr />
</div>

<p>This file has been created in Open Office and converted to ePub using a plugin tool. The
Esperanto characters that follow are created using auto hotkey, eokey-unicode; Ĉ, Ĝ, Ĥ, Ĵ, Ŝ. If
you see them with their hats on they are being read properly. If not maybe its a reader
problem.</p>

<p><br /></p>
</body>
</html>

To paulpeer, thanks for your suggestion. I will try it. Al paulpeer, dankon. Mi provos ĝin.

paulpeer · 03-07-2010, 02:18 PM

It's a bit more complicated than you describe above, Pensaro. Did you mention the fonts in the OPF package? And in the CSS file? I suggest that you read this article:
http://blog.threepress.org/2009/09/1...in-epub-files/
In my opinion it gives a clear overview of all the steps you should follow.

charleski · 03-07-2010, 06:24 PM

Read the post paulpeer linked, and there's a sticky thread about embedding fonts in this forum as well.

Basically, you need to do 4 things:
1) Insert your fonts into the epub file. Generally it's best to make a 'fonts' directory and put them there. I use WinRaR to open epub files for this, but you can use the free 7zip just as well.
2) Specify the location and type of the font with an @font-face declaration in the css:
e.g.:

Code:

@font-face {
  font-family: "Charis";
  font-style: normal;
  font-weight: normal;
  src:url(../fonts/font004.ttf);
  }

The location is relative to the css file in the epub structure. You need to do this separately for each font you're embedding, and italics and bold count as different fonts. Often embedding a font means embedding 4 different ttf files, each with their own @font-face declaration: normal, italic, bold and bolditalic. These 4 fonts then comprise a 'font family' and should be given the same 'font-family' name ('Charis' in the example above).
3) Tell the program that you want to use these fonts by adding the following:

Code:

  body {
        font-family: "Charis"
  }

Where 'Charis' is the font-family name used in the font declarations above. If your css already has a body entry, then just add the font-family line to that.
4) Tell the epub reader that the epub contains font files by opening up the .opf file that defines the epub and inserting the proper lines in the manifest section:

Code:

<package xmlns="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf" unique-identifier="BookID" version="2.0">
    <metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" 
     ...
    </metadata>
    <manifest>
      ...
	<item href="fonts/font001.TTF" id="CharisBold" media-type="application/octet-stream"/>
	<item href="fonts/font002.TTF" id="CharisItalic" media-type="application/octet-stream"/>
	<item href="fonts/font003.TTF" id="CharisBoldItalic" media-type="application/octet-stream"/>
	<item href="fonts/font004.TTF" id="Charis" media-type="application/octet-stream"/>
    </manifest>
   ...

For each item, set the href to the path to your font file (relative to the .opf file). The name used for the id doesn't really matter, it's required, but won't be used.

If this process is daunting, then I'd really advise you to get Atlantis Word Processor. It only costs $35 and can embed fonts automatically (all you need to do is check a box on the output dialog). Alternatively, you could try the 0.2.0 beta of Sigil, though that's still being refined.

[Edit] BTW, the reason you find that the letters show up in other readers is that they 'cheat' and use system fonts to render the text. ADE doesn't - it uses its own built-in font so that it can emulate what the epub looks like on a portable reader that uses ADE.

pensaro1 · 03-08-2010, 07:35 AM

Hello again. I must say that I am just about overwhelmed by everyone's willingness to help me with this. I am someone who lives on the outer fringes of codeworld so I get lost sometimes. Nevertheless I will persist. I copied the relevant info to my computer to study when I have time. Not much at the moment. It may be a while before I get back here but thanks again to everyone. I know this will be solved eventually.

Valloric · 03-08-2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleski

BTW, the reason you find that the letters show up in other readers is that they 'cheat' and use system fonts to render the text. ADE doesn't - it uses its own built-in font so that it can emulate what the epub looks like on a portable reader that uses ADE.

Cheat? Automatic and per-character font substitution is one absolutely amazing technology. I've never heard anyone refer to is as "cheating", but I've heard many refer to it as "brilliant".

ADE should most definitely use it.

charleski · 03-08-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valloric

Cheat? Automatic and per-character font substitution is one absolutely amazing technology. I've never heard anyone refer to is as "cheating", but I've heard many refer to it as "brilliant".

ADE should most definitely use it.

No, that would be an extremely bad idea.

ADE's desktop app roughly mirrors the result that will be obtained when reading the same book on a portable reader using ADE (which is still the most common reading system on portable devices). While final proofing should always take place on a target device to check element positioning and paging, the desktop app is extremely useful for soft-proofing during the design process.

Desktop epub readers that rely on system fonts may look nice (sometimes, I've seen some really dodgy font rendering), but this 'feature' makes them worthless for getting an idea of how the book will look on a reader. It's only 'brilliant' if you plan on reading it on your PC...

paulpeer · 03-09-2010, 03:54 AM

The points of view of Charleski and Valloric are very interesting. I was wondering about the sentence "ADE (which is still the most common reading system on portable devices)." Has anyone ever seen a list of devices that do not use ADE? This would be very interesting for people that want to buy a device, and are planning to read books in a language that ADE has problems with (not only Esperanto as in this thread, but also Polish, Rumanian, Latvian etc)

pensaro1 · 03-09-2010, 05:34 AM

Hello again. I am back earlier than I thought because I have decided to try out Atlantis. It does the job well and it saves me a lot of time and headache at very little price. Selecting for embedded fonts means Esperanto characters do show in ADE. Problem solved but thanks very, very much to all who have helped on this.

paulpeer · 03-09-2010, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pensaro1

Selecting for embedded fonts means Esperanto characters do show in ADE.

I'm glad it's OK now. Can I ask two more questions? Which device are you using? And secondly, please have a look at the table of contents. Do the accented letters show well in it?
I'm asking because I'm writing an article for Monato about reading devices for people who want to read books in Esperanto.

Valloric · 03-09-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charleski

No, that would be an extremely bad idea.

ADE's desktop app roughly mirrors the result that will be obtained when reading the same book on a portable reader using ADE (which is still the most common reading system on portable devices). While final proofing should always take place on a target device to check element positioning and paging, the desktop app is extremely useful for soft-proofing during the design process.

Desktop epub readers that rely on system fonts may look nice (sometimes, I've seen some really dodgy font rendering), but this 'feature' makes them worthless for getting an idea of how the book will look on a reader. It's only 'brilliant' if you plan on reading it on your PC...

What you're asking for is a reference rendering. For that, sure, ADE should closely exactly match what you'll see on an embedded Reading System.

But font substitution would be brilliant for a PC reader who doesn't care about the portable reading devices. I'm sure you're not dismissing the technology from the point of view of a reader. Font substitution is bad for reference rendering, but great for user-oriented rendering.

Basically, ADE should have a "use font substitution" option.

03-07-2010, 06:24 PM	#23
charleski Wizard Posts: 1,196 Karma: 1281258 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505	Read the post paulpeer linked, and there's a sticky thread about embedding fonts in this forum as well. Basically, you need to do 4 things: 1) Insert your fonts into the epub file. Generally it's best to make a 'fonts' directory and put them there. I use WinRaR to open epub files for this, but you can use the free 7zip just as well. 2) Specify the location and type of the font with an @font-face declaration in the css: e.g.: Code: @font-face { font-family: "Charis"; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; src:url(../fonts/font004.ttf); } The location is relative to the css file in the epub structure. You need to do this separately for each font you're embedding, and italics and bold count as different fonts. Often embedding a font means embedding 4 different ttf files, each with their own @font-face declaration: normal, italic, bold and bolditalic. These 4 fonts then comprise a 'font family' and should be given the same 'font-family' name ('Charis' in the example above). 3) Tell the program that you want to use these fonts by adding the following: Code: body { font-family: "Charis" } Where 'Charis' is the font-family name used in the font declarations above. If your css already has a body entry, then just add the font-family line to that. 4) Tell the epub reader that the epub contains font files by opening up the .opf file that defines the epub and inserting the proper lines in the manifest section: Code: <package xmlns="http://www.idpf.org/2007/opf" unique-identifier="BookID" version="2.0"> <metadata xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" ... </metadata> <manifest> ... <item href="fonts/font001.TTF" id="CharisBold" media-type="application/octet-stream"/> <item href="fonts/font002.TTF" id="CharisItalic" media-type="application/octet-stream"/> <item href="fonts/font003.TTF" id="CharisBoldItalic" media-type="application/octet-stream"/> <item href="fonts/font004.TTF" id="Charis" media-type="application/octet-stream"/> </manifest> ... For each item, set the href to the path to your font file (relative to the .opf file). The name used for the id doesn't really matter, it's required, but won't be used. If this process is daunting, then I'd really advise you to get Atlantis Word Processor. It only costs $35 and can embed fonts automatically (all you need to do is check a box on the output dialog). Alternatively, you could try the 0.2.0 beta of Sigil, though that's still being refined. [Edit] BTW, the reason you find that the letters show up in other readers is that they 'cheat' and use system fonts to render the text. ADE doesn't - it uses its own built-in font so that it can emulate what the epub looks like on a portable reader that uses ADE. Last edited by charleski; 03-07-2010 at 06:37 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Simple Esperanto ePub conversion script?	amuzulo	ePub	10	03-06-2010 02:54 PM
Esperanto characters	pensaro1	Other formats	5	10-17-2009 08:40 AM
Children Andersen, Hans Christian: Fabeloj (Esperanto), v1, 1 Septembro 2008	Kravejs	Other Books	0	09-02-2008 08:00 AM
Romance Baghy, Julio: La verda koro (Esperanto), v1, 31 Augusto 2008	Kravejs	Kindle Books (offline)	0	09-01-2008 02:26 PM
Romance Privat, Edmond: Karlo (Esperanto), v1, 31 August 2008	Kravejs	Kindle Books (offline)	0	09-01-2008 02:19 PM

03-06-2010, 12:04 PM	#18
charleski Wizard Posts: 1,196 Karma: 1281258 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-505	To see Esperanto characters you must embed a font that shows them. Just take it step-by-step 1) Does the epub I posted show up properly in ADE? It does on my machine. 2) If 1) shows properly, try opening the epub I posted in Sigil and then just paste in your text and save it. Does that show up properly? Sigil 0.18 will preserve any embedded fonts but you have to add them manually (I suspect this is the problem you're still having). If this works then you can just use that epub as a template and paste in text for your final epubs. It has CharisSIL embedded in it, which is free font that you can distribute without any hassles. The latest version of Atlantis Word Processor handles embedded fonts and the next version of Sigil will as well, though it's still in beta.

03-06-2010, 02:43 PM	#20
paulpeer Zealot Posts: 147 Karma: 56 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Antwerpen Device: iPhone, Sony PRS-505, EPUBreader	Here are some free Esperanto books in the ePub format that you can use to test: http://www.esperanto.be/fel/but/e-libro.php#senpaga You'll see that the corpse of the books show the perfect diacritics on the ĉ, ĝ, ŭ because these books have embedded fonts. But you'll see also that the diacritics do not show in the table of contents. ADE doesn't use the embedded fonts for the TOCs, but it's own fonts. The only solution as far as I know: do not use ADE programs but use e.g. EPUBReader.

03-07-2010, 12:13 PM	#21
pensaro1 Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	Hi again. Its great that so many people are trying to help with this . To charleski - I tried your idea about pasting in esperanto characters. Again OK. in Sigil but not in ADE. Below is the code from the Sigil version, which is 0.1.4 by the way not beta. Is there something in here that I should alter to force ADE to display properly? <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> <head> <title></title> <style type="text/css"> /<![CDATA[/ @namespace h "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"; h1 {margin-top:4em; margin-bottom:1,5em; page-break-after:avoid; font-size:2em; font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif; text-align: center; color:#000000 } h2 {margin-top:3em; margin-right:0pt; margin-bottom:1,5em; margin-left:0pt; page-break-after:avoid; font-size:1,5em; font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif; text-align: center; color:#000000; } h3 {margin-top:2em; margin-bottom:1,5em; line-height:normal; page-break-after:avoid; font-size:1,25em; font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif; text-align: center; color:#000000; } p {margin:0pt; text-indent:1em; font-family: Georgia, Garamond, serif; text-align: justify; color:#000000 } ul {text-indent:2em; } ol {text-indent:2em; } a {color:#000000; text-decoration: underline } /SG DO NOT MODIFY. This style is used by Sigil. It will be removed on export along with the "sigilChapterBreak" HR tags. SG/ hr.sigilChapterBreak { border: none 0; border-top: 3px double #c00; height: 3px; clear: both; } /]]>/ </style> </head> <body> <div> <hr /> </div> <p>This file has been created in Open Office and converted to ePub using a plugin tool. The Esperanto characters that follow are created using auto hotkey, eokey-unicode; Ĉ, Ĝ, Ĥ, Ĵ, Ŝ. If you see them with their hats on they are being read properly. If not maybe its a reader problem.</p> <p><br /></p> </body> </html> To paulpeer, thanks for your suggestion. I will try it. Al paulpeer, dankon. Mi provos ĝin.

03-07-2010, 02:18 PM	#22
paulpeer Zealot Posts: 147 Karma: 56 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Antwerpen Device: iPhone, Sony PRS-505, EPUBreader	It's a bit more complicated than you describe above, Pensaro. Did you mention the fonts in the OPF package? And in the CSS file? I suggest that you read this article: http://blog.threepress.org/2009/09/1...in-epub-files/ In my opinion it gives a clear overview of all the steps you should follow.

03-08-2010, 07:35 AM	#24
pensaro1 Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	Hello again. I must say that I am just about overwhelmed by everyone's willingness to help me with this. I am someone who lives on the outer fringes of codeworld so I get lost sometimes. Nevertheless I will persist. I copied the relevant info to my computer to study when I have time. Not much at the moment. It may be a while before I get back here but thanks again to everyone. I know this will be solved eventually.

03-09-2010, 03:54 AM	#27
paulpeer Zealot Posts: 147 Karma: 56 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Antwerpen Device: iPhone, Sony PRS-505, EPUBreader	The points of view of Charleski and Valloric are very interesting. I was wondering about the sentence "ADE (which is still the most common reading system on portable devices)." Has anyone ever seen a list of devices that do not use ADE? This would be very interesting for people that want to buy a device, and are planning to read books in a language that ADE has problems with (not only Esperanto as in this thread, but also Polish, Rumanian, Latvian etc)

03-09-2010, 05:34 AM	#28
pensaro1 Member Posts: 14 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: none	Hello again. I am back earlier than I thought because I have decided to try out Atlantis. It does the job well and it saves me a lot of time and headache at very little price. Selecting for embedded fonts means Esperanto characters do show in ADE. Problem solved but thanks very, very much to all who have helped on this.

Advert

Advert