Tor E-Book pricing?

[Kanlee]

Originally Posted by lilac_jive

It's unfair that they are charging more for the ebook than the most recent pbook edition. I blame the publisher because they were doing this before the whole Amazon/Macmillan debacle and that was reflected at other ebook sites, not just Amazon.

But I digress. Without knowing the titles in question I can't compare other sites, or check to see when the book was released in mass market.

One book in question is gardens of the moon by Steve Erikson
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

[=X=]

Originally Posted by tompe

Amazon is currently setting the prices so I do not see why you blame the publisher.
I really do not get what an unfair price is. I thought that seller and buyer interacts and there will be a price and that this process did not have any goals like being fair.

Amazon is not setting the price the the publishers are.

[Pardoz]

Originally Posted by Kanlee

One book in question is gardens of the moon by Steve Erikson

If you're looking for Erikson's work, you're better off buying it from Waterstone's in the UK (they sell to anywhere, or did last time I bought from them). You can pick up the first eight Malazon novels in two-novel omnibus editions for around GBP8 (US$13-14), which works out between $6 and $7/novel. Plus they have the whole series available as e-books, instead of just 1-3, 6, and 7. Oddly Amazon no longer seems to have the most recent one on offer, although I bought it from them a month or so ago.

[Kanlee]

Originally Posted by Pardoz

If you're looking for Erikson's work, you're better off buying it from Waterstone's in the UK (they sell to anywhere, or did last time I bought from them). You can pick up the first eight Malazon novels in two-novel omnibus editions for around GBP8 (US$13-14), which works out between $6 and $7/novel. Plus they have the whole series available as e-books, instead of just 1-3, 6, and 7. Oddly Amazon no longer seems to have the most recent one on offer, although I bought it from them a month or so ago.

Thank You I might check them out but I am going to try the library first to see if I like the first book of the series.If they have it here in this small community???They do not carry a lot.

[CleverClothe]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I won't necessarily agree with tompe that ebooks ought to be more expensive than paper. However, he is correct that you cannot blame Tor right now for the current prices. Tor is setting its current cover prices with the expectation that Amazon and other retailers will offer a significant discount. It's like castigating a car manufacturer on your new car's cash price because the auto dealer refuses to go below MSRP or, for a hot car, charges more than the MSRP.

This will change when Amazon switches to agency pricing, and Tor will gain much more control over pricing. Until agency pricing kicks in, you can't exclusively blame Tor for the price and can't predict how they will price it.

Can't blame Tor for the prices that Tor sets?

Then who is to blame? Government? God? A butterfly in Brazil?

Hardbacks and paperbacks are discounted as well, and the publishers do not like this. That is the whole reason behind the move to the Agency model. Macmillan (parent of Tor) wants prices higher and does not like the discounting. They have stated this openly in public. So yes, they are responsible for the price of books.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by tompe

Why? An ebook is potentially more useful since it is searchable and it is easier to use a dictionary.
....
Yes, but since Amazon is selling books at a loss you can blame them for not selling the ebook at the price you want.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. The argument for ebooks being cheaper than the paper editions is that ebooks don't have the print/shipping/returns cost of paper, although that doesn't take into account any charges the publisher incurs for creating the ebook edition divided by the expected ebook sales. Amazon is not selling all ebooks for a loss, mostly just the bestsellers which are also being sold for a loss in the print editions.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by =X=

Amazon is not setting the price the the publishers are.

Well, no they are not. The publishers sell to the retailers for a price we do not know what it is and the retailer (Amazon) sets the price.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. The argument for ebooks being cheaper than the paper editions is that ebooks don't have the print/shipping/returns cost of paper, although that doesn't take into account any charges the publisher incurs for creating the ebook edition divided by the expected ebook sales. Amazon is not selling all ebooks for a loss, mostly just the bestsellers which are also being sold for a loss in the print editions.

I tried to be a bit sarcastic... I find it inconsistent that Amazon gets the credit for selling bestsellers for 9.99 at a loss but do not get the blame for higher prices.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by tompe

I tried to be a bit sarcastic... I find it inconsistent that Amazon gets the credit for selling bestsellers for 9.99 at a loss but do not get the blame for higher prices.

In the merchant model that Amazon is currently operating under, the publisher sets a wholesale price, and Amazon sets a retail price. Theoretically, all those $9.99 hardcover bestsellers and $9.99 ebooks of the bestsellers have a retail price of $28 (or whatever), so the wholesale price is typically about $14, and Amazon is selling them at a lost of $4 (in this example). If the ebook is listed at $14, then Amazon is paying about $7, and can set the price at $9.99 and still make a small profit. If MacMillan sets the ebook price at $28 and leaves it there forever, and Amazon decides to sell it at the same price as the mass market paperback, they're taking the loss to encourage Kindle sales. If they price it higher to break even, the Kindle owners blame Amazon, even though if they were to go to the publishers own ebook store, they'd see that the gouge starts at the publisher.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by CleverClothe

Can't blame Tor for the prices that Tor sets?

Yes.

Re-read my post. Tor currently does not have control over the final price. Again, you can't blame GM if your local GM dealer doesn't discount as much as you like, or demands a price above MSRP.

Originally Posted by CleverClothe

Then who is to blame? Government? God? A butterfly in Brazil?

Right now, Amazon. Tor is likely setting the cover price with the expectation that Amazon will discount, like they do everything else.

Again, once agency pricing kicks in, then Tor is setting the complete price. Then Tor is fully responsible for the prices.

[rixte]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Yes.

Re-read my post. Tor currently does not have control over the final price. Again, you can't blame GM if your local GM dealer doesn't discount as much as you like, or demands a price above MSRP.



Right now, Amazon. Tor is likely setting the cover price with the expectation that Amazon will discount, like they do everything else.

Again, once agency pricing kicks in, then Tor is setting the complete price. Then Tor is fully responsible for the prices.

Except Amazon is not the only retailer out there - and the publishers are setting prices that make it hard for other retailers - booksonboard, fictionwise, etc to compete.

The publisher sets the base price, and while retailers CAN discount to some extent, the fact that something is 10 dollars higher than the existing paperback is, indeed, the fault of the publisher. They are completely capable of setting their base price the same as the paperback - many of the publishers do, Tor is one of the worst at not doing it.

[docjim]

Something screwy is definitely going on with the Tor prices. If you look at the Robert Jordan books, before the whole Macmillan/Amazon fiasco, Amazon was selling the first book in the series for 6.99 and the others for 7.99 (the paperback price is about 7.99 for each also). After the Macmillan books were restored, all the Kindle versions were listed as 9.99 for a week or so. Then the first book vanished entirely for a couple days, then it was 6.99 for a day, then back to 9.99, and now all of them seem to be listed as back at 7.99 for the moment.

At first, I was assuming Tor/Macmillan was reponsible for the price increase. But given that things have flopped back and forth so much, maybe it's just all a mistake on Amazon's part.

[kenschunk]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Again, once agency pricing kicks in, then Tor is setting the complete price. Then Tor is fully responsible for the prices.

I'm not buying that as an argument for the high "digital list" prices on Tor books. A quick look at the Kindle books page shows numerous books that are below the $9.99 price point. Two that I glanced at - "The Lost World" and "Slaughterhouse 5" both are selling at 20% below the digital list price. Clearly other publishers have determined a way to set eBook prices to be more in line with paperbacks.

If MacMillan/Tor had a history of dropping eBook prices after a time period to be roughly the same as a mass market paperback then I'd be more willing to take their side.