Why is it okay for Jobs, but not for Bezos?

[guyanonymous]

It has become harder and harder to give business entities the benefit of the doubt when they make statements of their intents. Follow through seems minimal more often than not.

[mcl]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

It has become harder and harder to give business entities the benefit of the doubt when they make statements of their intents. Follow through seems minimal more often than not.

There's no need to give them the benefit of the doubt, when their own actions are recorded for us to research at a moment's notice from the comfort of our own homes.

Though, it's not surprising that old-media companies, who fear the future and the sweeping changes it brings, still expect us to be cowed and placated by a few platitudes spilled forth in the press, without any follow-up being done.

"Trust but verify": words to live by.

[Solicitous]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

$15 is just the price for new ebooks; it's pretty clear that publishers will use dynamic pricing, e.g. drop the price of the ebook after the title has been out for 6 months or so. That's how hardcovers work -- I assure you, it doesn't cost 2x or 3x as much to print a hardcover as it does a paperback. They just happen to use a physical form to set up a tiered pricing structure. You charge more for high-demand titles, and when demand falls, you reduce the price in order to encourage more sales. It's just basic economics -- albeit without the artifice currently utilized by the book industry.

Even at $15 for a new ebook, they're cheaper, more convenient, more portable, and "greener" than paper. The market is not going to collapse in a fiery ball because they charge $5 more for a brand-new title for a few months.

When I see new books discounted 6 months after release it is usually to do with bookshops clearing out stock that isn't moving as fast as it did when first released. I don't see ebooks ever being sold cheap to clear room. Ebook stores don't have to buy X-number of ebooks then on-sell them. They get a copy, sell a copy, pay publisher. No money is tied up in stock taking up space. I understand your argument for basic economics, but I feel it is only valid for physical products that cost per unit to produce before sale.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

This will definately slow the adoption of ebooks.

I don't think so. But I think it will speed up the adoption of pirated books...

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Are ebooks really cannibalizing hardback sales?

Not in my case. I almost never bought hardbacks in the first place, generally only mass paperbacks. And those I don't buy at all anymore. I'd even say I've bought more hardbacks and trade paperbacks since I've started to read electronically (before I'd buy the mass market paperback, now I buy the ebook and hardback or TP if I want a paper version).

[basschick]

ebook sales aren't cannibalizing hardback sales from me, nor from anyone i know. i rarely buy paper books, hard or soft, new or old. that being said, when there's a book i really really really look forward to from an author i know in a series i'm in the middle of, i may buy the hardcover version when it comes out, although this has only happened a very few times before or after i got my cybook. most of the people i know personally wait till books comes out in paperback or buy used, although a few buy new pbooks they expect to like immediately when they come out in hardback but whether or not they have ebook readers doesn't seem to affect this.

seems like publishers keep beating the same drum, but i'd be interested in seeing any proof that selling less hardcovers is based on people owning ebook readers rather than simply people reading less or being able to afford less. besides, if ebook readers encourage people to read more, publishers could make a little less per book but sell a great deal more. obviously this business model didn't hurt walmart...

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by basschick

ebook sales aren't cannibalizing hardback sales from me, nor from anyone i know. i rarely buy paper books, hard or soft, new or old. that being said, when there's a book i really really really look forward to from an author i know in a series i'm in the middle of, i may buy the hardcover version when it comes out, although this has only happened a very few times before or after i got my cybook. most of the people i know personally wait till books comes out in paperback or buy used, although a few buy new pbooks they expect to like immediately when they come out in hardback but whether or not they have ebook readers doesn't seem to affect this.

seems like publishers keep beating the same drum, but i'd be interested in seeing any proof that selling less hardcovers is based on people owning ebook readers rather than simply people reading less or being able to afford less. besides, if ebook readers encourage people to read more, publishers could make a little less per book but sell a great deal more. obviously this business model didn't hurt walmart...

My mum and dad must have bought at least 4 hard backs a month for last 20 years.

I bought them both a CoolER reader each and they now get books for $9.99 instead of $35 each.

[dragonbone]

Originally Posted by stustaff

My mum and dad must have bought at least 4 hard backs a month for last 20 years.

I bought them both a CoolER reader each and they now get books for $9.99 instead of $35 each.

What a lovely sweet thing to do!

[stustaff]

Originally Posted by dragonbone

What a lovely sweet thing to do!

Thanks

More inheritence for me this way

[Daithi]

Well, it's now Wednesday and the Macmillan books still aren't back up on Amazon's website yet. Has Amazon changed their mind about folding? Are they still in negotiation?

One thing Amazon could do -- accept Macmillan's scheme and list the book at $14.99 then give the customer an immediate $5 rebate. Macmillan would have to pay Amazon their 30% commission which is $4.50, so Amazon would lose $0.49, but this is less than what they are losing now. Damn! I should work for Amazon.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by bgalbrecht

While I prefer the Webscriptions model, I can understand the publishers wanting to keep the "dynamic pricing" model of Hardback, trade paperback, mass market paperback, where the cheap MMPB comes out about a year after the HB edition. In general, I have enough to read that I'm willing to wait for the MMPB (or equivalent priced ebook) to come out (or borrow it from the library).

My biggest concern is that ebook dynamic pricing doesn't have the book return feedback that paper books do. With paper books, if the publisher gets a lot of returns, he's crediting the bookstores, and (at least for HBs) ends up with stock to warehouse. With ebooks, there are no returns, so unless the publisher is attentive, there's no incentive to drop the price of an older backlist book. Sure, Macmillan claims that they'll drop ebooks to $5.99, but they're not doing it now. For example, a popular author like Sue Grafton has a number of backlist MMPB books with a retail price of $7.99, but the ebooks are sold at $14 and up. Over at Fictionwise, BOB, etc. there are plenty of ebooks that didn't drop in price to match the MMPB (especially books by MacMillan and its subsidiaries). Say what you want about Amazon and its motives (it's all about Amazon's profit), but I think they've been one of the few forces to push the publishers to match the MMPB price with ebooks, and the agency pricing model is going to take that away.

Always be sure to remember that the main "magic" of the webscriptions model is that they've cut out 1.5 of the (usually) two layers of distribution between publisher and reader. It's not quite publisher-direct sales—Webscriptions is a separate company—but it's also not quite like a separate retailer either—Webscriptions takes on many* of the eBook preparation costs that are usually born entirely by the publisher. (*Or so I understand from the body of overall comments by various Baen & Webscriptions folks over the years.) This means that they've moved up the value chain, and are able to avoid most of the markup normally taken by distributors and retailers. Their low pricing shows that they split the benefit with the readers... but don't ask me to figure out how much we get and how much they keep, as I have no clue!

As for dynamic pricing, they most certainly do that too! How else would you describe selling eARCs at $15 for advance access to an unedited book? How else would you describe books that are older still showing up in the Free Library? Or included on freely-distributable CDs? Baen's dynamic pricing for eBooks just has three price-points: early access is $15/book, regular access is $6/book (quantity one) and/or $15/bundle (quantity 4-8), access to (many) older books is free!

Also note that even the books that are available for free continue to sell in bits! And it isn't because the buyers don't know that the book is available for free, either. Rather, there's a subset of fans who choose to pay anyway in order to subsidize a publisher who's doing right by the readers as well as to send a bit more royalty money to an author they like.

Xenophon
(No connection to Baen except as a fan-boy from way back)

[DawnFalcon]

As I understand it, what Webscriptions is passed is the actual file to be used for printing.
From there, it's a matter of having the software to spit out the various versions of the file.

And I'd note that due to demand, they actually added the ability to "buy" free library books, basically a donation to the author (but one which avoids any tax pitfalls).

[Pardoz]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

At this point, Amazon claims that when a book is available in both hardcover and ebook format, 6 out of 10 sales of that title will be the ebook version -- and that doesn't include the free books.

Not quite. They've stated that when a Kindle edition of a book is available (not a hardcover bestseller; any printed book) for every ten physical copies they sell, they also sell six electronic copies.

The question then becomes "How many of those six copies would have been physical sales if an e-book were not available?" And the answer is "Absolutely nobody knows, and anybody who claims to is probably pushing an agenda."

[Pardoz]

Originally Posted by Daithi

One thing Amazon could do -- accept Macmillan's scheme and list the book at $14.99 then give the customer an immediate $5 rebate.

One of the many advantages of an agency model is that, depending on how the contract is written, the agent (in this case Amazon) may give up the ability to do sales, provide rebates, or otherwise change the sale price.

[kilron]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Do you think this is a death knell for ebooks, except among the small group of hard core converts on MR?

not at all. personally i think its hard to directly correlate what iTunes did with music and now apple's entry into books. they're alike in some ways, but very different in others.

now this is just my opinion, but i personally don't see a few books getting more expensive as signaling the death knell in any way. i have always seen the biggest thing holding back dedicated (high quality) eReaders, and subsequently eBooks, is the initial cost of entry. over $200 is just way way too much for the mainstream and most are over that.

IMO, what will drive the cost back down is mass adoption. ANYTHING that helps bring about mass adoption and acceptance of eBooks will help this, and that includes lower cost dedicated eReaders as well as the new iPad which i'd bet my house on will be a huge hit.

i just think its a little early to say the sky is falling. give it 6 months or so for things to shake out a bit and then reevaluate.

[guyanonymous]

Are books to be sold via iBooks only readable/buyable by those with an iTouch/iPhone/iPad?

If so they've made it harder (you can only use one brand of equipment) and increased prices.

I think the ebook market will keep expanding - more people are aware of it now - but that the tech-saavy ones will get their books through alternate means (darknet).