The 2010 "Which formats are good to sell" poll - Page 2

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-19-2010, 11:02 AM

I tried the "Save As Daisy" plug-in for Word. Saving the book took hours... I don't know how many, I went to bed after it had been chewing on it for over an hour.

When I checked on it in the morning, I saw about 110 individual files, including 53 mp3 files and 53 smil files, and a grand total of 137MB... I wasn't expecting that!

I'd hope DAISY is more reasonably packaged than that, or how could people use it, move it on the web in limited-bandwidth pipes, etc?

Fledchen · 03-19-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

I tried the "Save As Daisy" plug-in for Word. Saving the book took hours... I don't know how many, I went to bed after it had been chewing on it for over an hour.

When I checked on it in the morning, I saw about 110 individual files, including 53 mp3 files and 53 smil files, and a grand total of 137MB... I wasn't expecting that!

I'd hope DAISY is more reasonably packaged than that, or how could people use it, move it on the web in limited-bandwidth pipes, etc?

Something is extremely messed up. Files generated by Word will always be a little bit bloated, but not that much. DAISY files should not be 10 times larger than their plain text origins. For example, "The Prince and the Pauper" by Mark Twain is about 400 kilobytes as a plain text file. The DAISY version is just under 1 megabyte. I can't figure out where those .mp3 files came from, either. DAISY books that contain recorded speech can have audio files, but I have no clue why Word would generate them for a text-only DAISY book. I'll ask around and see if there's any settings you need to tweak to get Word to produce DAISY files without a lot of extra junk.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-20-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fledchen

Something is extremely messed up. Files generated by Word will always be a little bit bloated, but not that much. DAISY files should not be 10 times larger than their plain text origins. For example, "The Prince and the Pauper" by Mark Twain is about 400 kilobytes as a plain text file. The DAISY version is just under 1 megabyte. I can't figure out where those .mp3 files came from, either. DAISY books that contain recorded speech can have audio files, but I have no clue why Word would generate them for a text-only DAISY book. I'll ask around and see if there's any settings you need to tweak to get Word to produce DAISY files without a lot of extra junk.

The DAISY files themselves aren't that large... 20-40K on average. They total 1.33MB (about the size of a LIT file, and about the same size as the original DOC file) by themselves.

I can isolate the MP3 files from the rest... but is it still supposed to break the files into so many parts (the number is equal to the number of chapters, plus the number of individual entries of other books at the end of the book)?

Fledchen · 03-20-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

The DAISY files themselves aren't that large... 20-40K on average. They total 1.33MB (about the size of a LIT file, and about the same size as the original DOC file) by themselves.

I can isolate the MP3 files from the rest... but is it still supposed to break the files into so many parts (the number is equal to the number of chapters, plus the number of individual entries of other books at the end of the book)?

There DAISY books with which I am familiar have only one .xml file that contains the text of the book. They can have a file for each chapter, but they don't need to. If the headings are formatted properly, navigation should be done by the reader according to these headings, not by skipping from file to file. In addition to this, there should be:
1 .smil file approximately the same size as the .xml file
2 .css files
1 .xsl file
1 .dtd file
1 .ncx file
1 .opf file

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-20-2010, 10:37 AM

Word gives you the option of saving the XML only (no MP3 files). I'll give that a shot and see what I get.

...

Yeah, that's more like it: An xml file, a css file and a cover. Much more workable, and only 730K.

Edit: Checking again, I see Word's Save As DAISY only offers xml-only, or full text and MP3, of either single or multiple docs. Xml-only provides just the 3 files, no smil, dtd, ncx or opf.

Fledchen · 03-20-2010, 02:24 PM

Do you want me to test a file on my hardware reader?

BooksForABuck · 03-20-2010, 02:49 PM

Steve,
What about straight HTML. If you're looking for a format that just about every device supports, it's hard to find anything more universal than HTML. I've added additional formats over time at BooksForABuck.com, but I started with HTML and think it's something every publisher should offer.

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-20-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooksForABuck

Steve,
What about straight HTML...

Yes, we tossed that around on the previous page. Others favor RTF over HTML, but HTML is a smaller file. I believe more conversion SW uses RTF input than HTML, but that would only mean the addition of one step to go from HTML to RTF if necessary... and that dynamic might be changing. So it is a possibility.

I am beginning to think one or the other might be best for all formats that get very little use, which (in my case) would include LIT, PDB, PDF and (I suspect) DAISY. That would leave me with ePub, Mobi, LRF and HTML/RTF, four formats down from the present six... and with multiple apps out there that can convert at least one of those 4 formats to other formats, most anyone is covered. Also, with Sony switching from LRF to ePub, I may not offer LRF for much past another year.

I am partially concerned that non-techie users might shy away if they don't see their format of choice... but in reality, I suspect those users are very few, most of the new users will be using the more popular Mobi and ePub formats.

As I'm about to release a new novel (plug, plug!) I may try offering it in ePub, Mobi, LRF and HTML, and see what kind of responses I get.

BooksForABuck · 03-20-2010, 09:10 PM

I've always thought of RTF as a conversion format rather than a read format and have just assumed HTML will be as good (as well as being a read format). I'd be interested in any discussion of that.

I've been offering ePub, eReader, PDF, Mobi/Kindle, HTML, LIT, and Sony LRF for a while now. Not sure what the take is for LIT and not sure it's worth keeping the Sony LRF up. So I'm also interested in the results of this poll. I've got a couple of old Windows PDAs (and an old Palm PDA) so I use LIT and eReader myself, but I sometimes wonder if I'm the last person in the world with this ancient equipment. At least Fictionwise is keeping eReader fresh...LIT doesn't lost.

Rob Preece
Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-21-2010, 12:12 AM

As a PDA reader myself, I often feel like I'm the only person who uses it to read. But every so often I still see people reading on Blackberries and smartphones, and I know I'm not the last. And of course, they are still being used to read in other countries, perhaps more than in the U.S. and Europe.

But the reality is, the numbers of those who are using formats other than Mobi and ePub (and, for a while, LRF) are shrinking fast... and of those numbers, most of them are capable of converting an e-book from an HTML or RTF file. That seems to go for e-book reading in general, and my readers in particular. So it seems practical to cut down the number of formats to a more manageable few, and let the rest convert if desired.

View Poll Results: Which formats should I offer on the SJB?
Open Ebook (OEB, aka ePub)	37	77.08%
eReader (pdb)	5	10.42%
MobiPocket (prc)	21	43.75%
MS Reader (lit)	3	6.25%
Sony Reader (lrf)	8	16.67%
Adobe Acrobat (pdf)	8	16.67%
Rich Text (rtf)	12	25.00%
Other (explain in thread)	4	8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

03-20-2010, 10:37 AM	#20
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Word gives you the option of saving the XML only (no MP3 files). I'll give that a shot and see what I get. ... Yeah, that's more like it: An xml file, a css file and a cover. Much more workable, and only 730K. Edit: Checking again, I see Word's Save As DAISY only offers xml-only, or full text and MP3, of either single or multiple docs. Xml-only provides just the 3 files, no smil, dtd, ncx or opf. Last edited by Steven Lyle Jordan; 03-20-2010 at 10:51 AM.

03-20-2010, 02:49 PM	#22
BooksForABuck Zealot Posts: 123 Karma: 150001 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Device: Color Nook, Kindle 2, Palm III, eBookWise, HP Jornada	What about HTML Steve, What about straight HTML. If you're looking for a format that just about every device supports, it's hard to find anything more universal than HTML. I've added additional formats over time at BooksForABuck.com, but I started with HTML and think it's something every publisher should offer. Rob Preece Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

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03-19-2010, 11:02 AM	#16
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	I tried the "Save As Daisy" plug-in for Word. Saving the book took hours... I don't know how many, I went to bed after it had been chewing on it for over an hour. When I checked on it in the morning, I saw about 110 individual files, including 53 mp3 files and 53 smil files, and a grand total of 137MB... I wasn't expecting that! I'd hope DAISY is more reasonably packaged than that, or how could people use it, move it on the web in limited-bandwidth pipes, etc?

03-20-2010, 02:24 PM	#21
Fledchen Guru Posts: 663 Karma: 84658 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Minnesota, USA Device: PB360+, Sony950, VR Stream, iPod Touch, iPad	Do you want me to test a file on my hardware reader?

03-20-2010, 09:10 PM	#24
BooksForABuck Zealot Posts: 123 Karma: 150001 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Device: Color Nook, Kindle 2, Palm III, eBookWise, HP Jornada	I've always thought of RTF as a conversion format rather than a read format and have just assumed HTML will be as good (as well as being a read format). I'd be interested in any discussion of that. I've been offering ePub, eReader, PDF, Mobi/Kindle, HTML, LIT, and Sony LRF for a while now. Not sure what the take is for LIT and not sure it's worth keeping the Sony LRF up. So I'm also interested in the results of this poll. I've got a couple of old Windows PDAs (and an old Palm PDA) so I use LIT and eReader myself, but I sometimes wonder if I'm the last person in the world with this ancient equipment. At least Fictionwise is keeping eReader fresh...LIT doesn't lost. Rob Preece Publisher, www.BooksForABuck.com

03-21-2010, 12:12 AM	#25
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	As a PDA reader myself, I often feel like I'm the only person who uses it to read. But every so often I still see people reading on Blackberries and smartphones, and I know I'm not the last. And of course, they are still being used to read in other countries, perhaps more than in the U.S. and Europe. But the reality is, the numbers of those who are using formats other than Mobi and ePub (and, for a while, LRF) are shrinking fast... and of those numbers, most of them are capable of converting an e-book from an HTML or RTF file. That seems to go for e-book reading in general, and my readers in particular. So it seems practical to cut down the number of formats to a more manageable few, and let the rest convert if desired.

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