Lets talk backing up...........again. - Page 2

mvisconte · 12-13-2009, 12:02 AM

dg,

When will you know wx the 'puter guy will try to retrieve anything?

If you get adventurous, you may try a live cd of Linux (or a bootable flash drive). That's more on the side of folks who want to poke around in a situation like yours, but you can't tell until you try...

I've pulled data out of more than one un-bootable system. The HD would still be good, but the OS would be mangled.

I'm jus' sayin', yo.

Not_A_Crook · 12-13-2009, 12:15 AM

I have a rather strange bit of detail on my DELL's current state of inoperability:

I inserted the service CD/DVD that came with the computer, into the DVD drive so I could finally return missing or eradicated files.

The damn hard drive clunked out the first five minutes I tried to fix it using the service pack.

Could it be the disk that caused it to crash?

desertgrandma · 12-13-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I bought this one less than a month ago when my old external HD became filled to capacity, and so far it's working like a charm. Plug and play simplicity.

That looks good, but way more than I need?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

DG, here's my two cents worth (for what it matters).

How do the Big Boys do it?

Multilevel and off-site Back ups. The bank I first programmed for shipped a copy all their files off-site every night. And weekly backups. And quarterly backups. and Yearly backups...

So you need at least two external drives. One at the house, one somewhere else (safety deposit box?) Before you laugh at that, think how much you've spent on data. And that's not even including the priceless stuff (priceless because you can't recreate it at any cost.)

Rotate the off-site and on-site every three months. Sync 'em up with your current data and put one back off-site.

And let's face it, we individuals who are not programmers will load 99% of our data as static files, never changing. Pictures, music files, e-books, they don't change. So every three months is good enough. Keep a USB drive handy for anything you get that you can't risk losing and keep it handy with the computer. Clean it out after every three month swap.

If you do that, hard drive crashes will become just a nuisance....

As usual, excellent advice. I had heard this "switch out and keep in safe deposit box" theory before somewhere......and at the time thought it was overkill. Not so much anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rootman

Being an IT guy I baxkup EVERYTHING multiple times. I was shocked when I actually stopped and figured out how many copies of everything I DO keep.

Laptop at work
Desktop at work
32GB Thumb drive (just for documents and downloads)
500GB Passport USB drive
Home laptop
Home server
4 count 'em 4 backups to a 1TB USB drive at home

That makes 10 copies! I've just gotten burnt to many times by hardware or human error. So I just kept adding more and more copies.

Haven't lost anything in years.

thats a lot of backing up. We have a desktop, my laptop, and the netbook. When I got the netbook, was going to load my Calibre Library to it, but chose to just load a few books. Now I'm thinking of loading Calibre to both the netbook and desktop.

(Lightbulb goes on......)........

desertgrandma · 12-13-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvisconte

dg,

When will you know wx the 'puter guy will try to retrieve anything?

If you get adventurous, you may try a live cd of Linux (or a bootable flash drive). That's more on the side of folks who want to poke around in a situation like yours, but you can't tell until you try...

I've pulled data out of more than one un-bootable system. The HD would still be good, but the OS would be mangled.

I'm jus' sayin', yo.

He's coming in the morning to pick up the cd's that came with the laptop so he can reinstall everything. He says he found the books folder, (thank you Kovid!!) and I think he said he found the picures folder. I'm holding my breath.

I'm not that adventurous. I'll leave the 'poking around' to people that know what they are doing...

Sweetpea · 12-13-2009, 03:13 AM

Ouch, that sounds horrible!

Which reminds me, I need to buy an external HD for our pictures...

I have an external HD which I always have with me, it contains all my books and some pictures (but not all, as I just don't have the space on it). I also have all my books on an SD card on my Mini, Loox and JE100. And on the internal memory of the Mini as well (and two thumb drives). Problem is, I can't do the same with my pictures as that folder is over 20Gb large... Which is generally also a problem if you want to use online storage...

HarryT · 12-13-2009, 03:35 AM

If you have a laptop, I'd suggest getting a "bus-powered" external USB drive (ie one which is powered by the USB port, so you don't need a separate power supply for it). The best price point now for these (at least in the UK - I imagine it's the same in the US) are the 500GB models.

For actually making your backups, take a look at Microsoft's "SyncToy" tool, which you can download free here. It lets you set up "pairs" of folders - one on your PC, the other on the external drive - and keep them in sync at the click of a button. Works beautifully, and it's completely free.

Everybody has a "bad" disk crash at some point; it's just one of these things where, unfortunately, you only realise how much you have to lose once it's happened. The important thing is to plan ahead and make sure that it only happens once.

wodin · 12-13-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

DG, here's my two cents worth (for what it matters).

How do the Big Boys do it?

Multilevel and off-site Back ups. The bank I first programmed for shipped a copy all their files off-site every night. And weekly backups. And quarterly backups. and Yearly backups...

So you need at least two external drives. One at the house, one somewhere else (safety deposit box?) Before you laugh at that, think how much you've spent on data. And that's not even including the priceless stuff (priceless because you can't recreate it at any cost.)

Rotate the off-site and on-site every three months. Sync 'em up with your current data and put one back off-site.

And let's face it, we individuals who are not programmers will load 99% of our data as static files, never changing. Pictures, music files, e-books, they don't change. So every three months is good enough. Keep a USB drive handy for anything you get that you can't risk losing and keep it handy with the computer. Clean it out after every three month swap.

If you do that, hard drive crashes will become just a nuisance....

The REALLY big guys (US Government) have a concept called Contingency Of Operations (COOP) where they replicate the entire data center at a remote location. This must be, by regulation, more than 50 miles away, and is usually thousands of miles. E.g. Hawaii and Alaska. These are fully capable of carrying the entire load for both regions, and if either region suffers a catastrophic failure, the whole system automatically fails over to the remaining one.

A little out of scope for my home PC, but completely doable if I have multiple computers on my home network. I have my desktop system, my wife's notebook, and my netbook. Most of my data is on all three, and just in case the house goes away I have Carbonite.

HarryT · 12-13-2009, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

A little out of scope for my home PC, but completely doable if I have multiple computers on my home network. I have my desktop system, my wife's notebook, and my netbook. Most of my data is on all three, and just in case the house goes away I have Carbonite.

That's the benefit of using cheap external USB drives - it's easy to keep one out of the house, eg at work, or at a friend's house. More convenient than "cloud" storage if you have a lot of data (at least it is if you use ADSL, which has a very slow "upstream" data rate). I use two drives, and keep one at home, and one at work, swapping them weekly, so the very most I'd lose would be a week's data updates.

Sweetpea · 12-13-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's the benefit of using cheap external USB drives - it's easy to keep one out of the house, eg at work, or at a friend's house. More convenient than "cloud" storage if you have a lot of data (at least it is if you use ADSL, which has a very slow "upstream" data rate). I use two drives, and keep one at home, and one at work, swapping them weekly, so the very most I'd lose would be a week's data updates.

I can't even do that, considering I take my stuff home with me every day... I don't have anything with a lock there where I might put my stuff...

HarryT · 12-13-2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

I can't even do that, considering I take my stuff home with me every day... I don't have anything with a lock there where I might put my stuff...

Well, the same suggestion isn't going to work for everybody, to be sure. I was just telling you what I do myself.

omk3 · 12-13-2009, 07:35 AM

Well, the big boys obviously have more to lose. I find the off-site storage a little overkill. I mean, if my house was destroyed, lost data would be the least of my problems. But giving (ir)regular copies of my most important files to my parents to keep could be compared to off-site storage too. It's not even a burden, they are interested in most of my books and all of my pictures anyway.
Interesting thread this, and lots of good ideas. Thanks, people!

Sweetpea · 12-13-2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Well, the same suggestion isn't going to work for everybody, to be sure. I was just telling you what I do myself.

I know

They are talking about always having an emergency kit in your house (containing things like a battery powered radio, a flashlight, a first-aid kit and such, all in a watertight bag or box). If you do have such a bag/box, it might be a good idea to put a backup of your data in there as well.

But as omk3 already said, lost data is the least of my worries if my house was destroyed... Though, I do want that external HD for my pictures (as my books are backup up several times already...) and it would be in a location where I'd always take it with me, or I'd be able to grab it on my way outside. Right now, my first item to grab would be my laptop bag as that contains everything I really want to have saved of my non-living possessions (can you call cats your possession anyway?)

HarryT · 12-13-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

But as omk3 already said, lost data is the least of my worries if my house was destroyed...

It may sound like a strange thing to say, but for me, it's not.

I have insurance which would rebuild my house, but things like my 20+ year-old eBook collection, my collection of old radio shows, and many years worth of digital photographs are all irreplaceable. There are things that money can't buy.

Greg Anos · 12-13-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

The REALLY big guys (US Government) have a concept called Contingency Of Operations (COOP) where they replicate the entire data center at a remote location. This must be, by regulation, more than 50 miles away, and is usually thousands of miles. E.g. Hawaii and Alaska. These are fully capable of carrying the entire load for both regions, and if either region suffers a catastrophic failure, the whole system automatically fails over to the remaining one.

A little out of scope for my home PC, but completely doable if I have multiple computers on my home network. I have my desktop system, my wife's notebook, and my netbook. Most of my data is on all three, and just in case the house goes away I have Carbonite.

You're right, Wodin. But for most individuals, the logistics of far off-site storage becomes daunting. That's why I use a safe deposit box. You get a double thickness Faraday cage that way (for emf pulse), far enough away for fire, and some windstorm protection. (The F3+ tornado has to hit both house and bank) I don't like to put my back-up at economic risk, so I'm leery of services like Carbonite; but that's to taste....

xianfox · 12-13-2009, 08:31 AM

My system at home relies on both an onsite and offsite backup.

I have one high-end desktop system that acts as a file server (mainly sharing Windows 7 libraries) and 4 netbooks running Windows 7 that all backup to the server occasionally.

The server has an external hard drive and the internal drive is mirrored to the external drive.

I also use Carbonite to make an offsite backup of the internal drive.

If my house should be destroyed by fire, I want an offsite backup. If I just space out and delete a file or directory accidentally, I use the onsite backup to retrieve those as it's worlds faster.

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12-13-2009, 12:02 AM	#16
mvisconte pHilosopher kIng Posts: 208 Karma: 429751 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: An imperfect world Device: Laptop, laptop, desktop, phone (HTC, HTC, Asus, Asus, LG rah!)	dg, When will you know wx the 'puter guy will try to retrieve anything? If you get adventurous, you may try a live cd of Linux (or a bootable flash drive). That's more on the side of folks who want to poke around in a situation like yours, but you can't tell until you try... I've pulled data out of more than one un-bootable system. The HD would still be good, but the OS would be mangled. I'm jus' sayin', yo.

12-13-2009, 12:15 AM	#17
Not_A_Crook Which way is up? Posts: 217 Karma: 94 Join Date: Dec 2009 Device: Nook, Alphasmart Neo (word processor, Viable document reader.)	I have a rather strange bit of detail on my DELL's current state of inoperability: I inserted the service CD/DVD that came with the computer, into the DVD drive so I could finally return missing or eradicated files. The damn hard drive clunked out the first five minutes I tried to fix it using the service pack. Could it be the disk that caused it to crash?

12-13-2009, 03:13 AM	#20
Sweetpea Grand Sorcerer Posts: 9,707 Karma: 32763414 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Krewerd Device: Pocketbook Inkpad 4 Color; Samsung Galaxy Tab S6	Ouch, that sounds horrible! Which reminds me, I need to buy an external HD for our pictures... I have an external HD which I always have with me, it contains all my books and some pictures (but not all, as I just don't have the space on it). I also have all my books on an SD card on my Mini, Loox and JE100. And on the internal memory of the Mini as well (and two thumb drives). Problem is, I can't do the same with my pictures as that folder is over 20Gb large... Which is generally also a problem if you want to use online storage...

12-13-2009, 03:35 AM	#21
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	If you have a laptop, I'd suggest getting a "bus-powered" external USB drive (ie one which is powered by the USB port, so you don't need a separate power supply for it). The best price point now for these (at least in the UK - I imagine it's the same in the US) are the 500GB models. For actually making your backups, take a look at Microsoft's "SyncToy" tool, which you can download free here. It lets you set up "pairs" of folders - one on your PC, the other on the external drive - and keep them in sync at the click of a button. Works beautifully, and it's completely free. Everybody has a "bad" disk crash at some point; it's just one of these things where, unfortunately, you only realise how much you have to lose once it's happened. The important thing is to plan ahead and make sure that it only happens once.

12-13-2009, 07:35 AM	#26
omk3 Wizard Posts: 1,454 Karma: 37243 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Europe Device: pocketbook 360, kindle 4	Well, the big boys obviously have more to lose. I find the off-site storage a little overkill. I mean, if my house was destroyed, lost data would be the least of my problems. But giving (ir)regular copies of my most important files to my parents to keep could be compared to off-site storage too. It's not even a burden, they are interested in most of my books and all of my pictures anyway. Interesting thread this, and lots of good ideas. Thanks, people!

12-13-2009, 08:31 AM	#30
xianfox Ebook Addict Posts: 225 Karma: 2136 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Appleton, Wisconsin, USA Device: Onyx BOOX Note Air 4C, Palma	My system at home relies on both an onsite and offsite backup. I have one high-end desktop system that acts as a file server (mainly sharing Windows 7 libraries) and 4 netbooks running Windows 7 that all backup to the server occasionally. The server has an external hard drive and the internal drive is mirrored to the external drive. I also use Carbonite to make an offsite backup of the internal drive. If my house should be destroyed by fire, I want an offsite backup. If I just space out and delete a file or directory accidentally, I use the onsite backup to retrieve those as it's worlds faster.

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