Microsoft and the Xbox

[DawnFalcon]

...

I think I just got punked.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

... Pirates drive up prices for the rest of us who are buying things legally, .... If you don't agree with a particularly DRM system, then don't buy things in that format and vote with your wallet....

Hm, I am not sure it's all this simple.

Depending on the market, piracy may at times cause price reductions.

For instance, if it was not for rampant piracy, the music industry would likely not have agreed to the $0.99 per song price point pushed by Apple. And likely we would still have heavy DRM on all songs.

In fact, the threat of piracy was the big stick wielded by Apple, when the music labels were attempting to force prices of $2+ per song at the Apple Store last year.

A to modding, people do it for many reasons, often enough unrelated to piracy. I've jailbroken both my iPhones, not to steal a few sub-$5 applications, but to enable features I would not otherwise be able to have.

Oh, and "voting with your wallet," while useful in a reasonably open market, is at other times the equivalent to cutting your nose, to spite your face....

[Slite]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Hm, I am not sure it's all this simple.

Depending on the market, piracy may at times cause price reductions.

For instance, if it was not for rampant piracy, the music industry would likely not have agreed to the $0.99 per song price point pushed by Apple. And likely we would still have heavy DRM on all songs.

In fact, the threat of piracy was the big stick wielded by Apple, when the music labels were attempting to force prices of $2+ per song at the Apple Store last year.

A to modding, people do it for many reasons, often enough unrelated to piracy. I've jailbroken both my iPhones, not to steal a few sub-$5 applications, but to enable features I would not otherwise be able to have.

Oh, and "voting with your wallet," while useful in a reasonably open market, is at other times the equivalent to cutting your nose, to spite your face....

Correct, I modded both of my "old" Xboxes, not to be able to play pirated games, which I had no interest in, but to be able to run the very, VERY excellent XBMC system on it so I could use the Xboxes as mediacenters.

That was before the PopCorn Hour came around tho, now, both my Xboxes are collecting dust in the attic

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That does not appear to be the case here. It's XBox's with "mod chips", permitting them to play illegally pirated disks, that are being targetted.

No, it's XBox's with "mod chips" period, that are being targeted. There are many reasons for wanting to mod a piece of hardware that you own. You should not automatically assume that everyone doing so is a pirate. But coming from you, I'm not surprised at that attitude.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

No, it's XBox's with "mod chips" period, that are being targeted. There are many reasons for wanting to mod a piece of hardware that you own. You should not automatically assume that everyone doing so is a pirate. But coming from you, I'm not surprised at that attitude.

Microsoft has the same attitude though. They think everyone who mods, wants to pirate.

[=X=]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That does not appear to be the case here. It's XBox's with "mod chips", permitting them to play illegally pirated disks, that are being targetted.

But the use of a mod chip is not soly used for piriated disks. There are many reasons for using a mod chip.

- For those that wish to use this system as a dual PC.
- Being able to play backed up DVD games. I've lost hundreds of dollars due to DVD disk getting scratched and unreadable.
- Retrofitting obsoleted hardware.

The down side is the flexibility also allows people with mal intent to abuse the system and use pirated software in addition to manipulating games to give them a competitive edge in Xbox Live games.

My main grip with these companies is they chose a medium that is easily damaged with no way to back them up. Anybody with children, the main target for these game consoles, know they do not take care of the equipment. But that is my rant.

=X=

[ahi]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That does not appear to be the case here. It's XBox's with "mod chips", permitting them to play illegally pirated disks, that are being targetted.

Based on user feedback it's XBox's with any modification of the hardware, sometimes even modification performed by Microsoft.

But we ought not let that stop us from bending over backwards applauding the rightful crushing defeat to consumer rights vaguely related to almost certainly financially inconsequential copyright violations.

I mean PIRACY. PIRACY! With the raping of women, plundering of wealthy merchant ships, and merciless murder of captured prisoners... oh... wait... no... it's the other kind, the one that let's stupid under-spoiled teenagers play games for free at the expense of dozens and dozens of dollars of profit for companies that still have annual profits in the tens and hundreds of millions.

- Ahi

[ahi]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Pirates drive up prices for the rest of us who are buying things legally, and this is a good way to punish them without bothering people using it legally since it does in fact just check for mod chips and not stuff like opening the case etc.

I'm fairly certain that literally every part of that run-on sentence is incorrect.

- Ahi

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by ahi

Based on user feedback it's XBox's with any modification of the hardware, sometimes even modification performed by Microsoft.

But we ought not let that stop us from bending over backwards applauding the rightful crushing defeat to consumer rights vaguely related to almost certainly financially inconsequential copyright violations.

I mean PIRACY. PIRACY! With the raping of women, plundering of wealthy merchant ships, and merciless murder of captured prisoners... oh... wait... no... it's the other kind, the one that let's stupid under-spoiled teenagers play games for free at the expense of dozens and dozens of dollars of profit for companies that still have annual profits in the tens and hundreds of millions.

Oh, god, you had me rolling on this one. Absolutely hilarious, yet poignant.

[dmaul1114]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll never have any respect for people who pirate stuff, whatever rationalizations are tossed around for it.

Either buy stuff legally, or do without it if you don't think the prices, DRM etc. are fair. Just because it's easier and not a tangible product doesn't making pirating digital content any different morally than stealing a physical product in my book.

[weateallthepies]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

No, it's XBox's with "mod chips" period, that are being targeted. There are many reasons for wanting to mod a piece of hardware that you own. You should not automatically assume that everyone doing so is a pirate. But coming from you, I'm not surprised at that attitude.

Actually it's mostly just consoles with modified drive firmware that are targeted, something which is largely used to play copied discs since it doesn't help with the unsigned code problem needed for homebrew and the likes.

There might be a few people playing backup copies of their own games but I'd bet it's mostly people playing downloaded games that have been caught.

There aren't really modchips as such on the 360, at least not in the same way the earlier consoles had them. I've a modded xbox original consoles which has served me very well for years as a media player, I'm only replacing it because it can't handle HD though I'll still be running the same software(XBMC).

I'd like to think the best of people but the mod state of the 360 means that the vast majority of those caught will have been using it for copied games. There are a few hacks to get code running but nothing hugely usable yet. Not that it particularly fusses me, just pointing out the facts.

[DawnFalcon]

Actually looks like they've hit a lot of people who have quite legitimately swapped hard disks for the 120GB ones as well (as well as people who have put their own HDD's in). And it's looking like they managed to kill off at least one entire production run (probably a mistake with the drive firmware verification).

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, they definitely need to work out some kinks--but I fully support banning modded consoles from X-box live.

It's away to punish pirates, as well as deal with people who modded consoles to allow cheating in online games--which is an issue as well.

They just need to find away that doesn't cast the net too wide and catch people not doing those kind of mods. Other mods are punished enough by voiding the warranty. Just the mods of pirating and cheating need extra punishment IMO.

[PKFFW]

It really doesn't matter what the reason for the mod is. It is no secret that if you mod your Xbox you lose access to the Xbox live service.

So it's a simple equation. If whatever you want the mod for is more important to you than the Xbox live service then go ahead and mod the Xbox. If the Xbox live service is more important then don't mod it.

As many on here repeatedly remind us, there is no god given "right" to make a living from one's creative efforts, that copyright is a new and "artificial" right granted by the law. Well so too is there no absolute right of the Xbox owner to access to the Xbox live service. If you want that access you play by Microsofts' rules.

Pretty simple really.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[DawnFalcon]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

people who modded consoles to allow cheating in online games--which is an issue as well.

Cite?

And they need to stop making it necessary for, say, Australians to mod their consoles to defeat region locking. By dropping region locking. The PS3 has!

PKFFW - If they were even reasonably accurate and they refunded the remaining time as-required by law and they didn't trash your saved games and media functionality, yes.