Universities say no more Kindles till blind students can use it.....

[Patricia]

Originally Posted by badbob001

So in the mean time, how do their visually impaired students read?

When I was a postgraduate in 1989, we had a scheme to support blind members of the university. I spent an evening a week reading law journal articles onto tape, together with a team of other volunteers. (I rather liked the criminal law, but the module on tort was rather dull.)

Then the university acquired a Kurzweil reader which scanned and produced text-to-speech, which could be recorded onto tape.

This technology has made great strides in the last decade.
http://www.kurzweiledu.com/

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I do find this type of case to be wholly without merit. Yes, it's very unfortunate to be blind, but it's not Amazon's fault that somebody is, and they are surely under no "obligation" to make the Kindle usable by blind people any more than MP3 player manufacturers are under an obligation to make their devices usable by the deaf. It's certainly not "discrimination".

Harry, you are right as regards Amazon but I think -- based solely on the little that has been presented here (and I freely admit I may well be wrong) -- that the lawsuit's purpose is being misconstrued.

As I understand it, the suit is about requiring students to use the Kindle as part of the university's requirements for a class. When the program was originally started, the idea was to replace printed textbooks with Kindled ebooks and require students to use the Kindle to access the coursework.

If this is correct, then the lawsuit makes sense to me: It is asking that the requirement of using a Kindle be eliminated. To require a particular course as part of graduation requirements, and to require the use of certain texts in that class, necessarily implies that (a) the course will be available to all students (after all, how could someone graduate if they haven't taken a required-to- graduate course?) and (b) that the required course materials will be accessible and available to all enrolled students.

I suspect that the Kindle program fails on the latter and that is what the lawsuit is about: stopping universities from requiring students to use material that they cannot access.

Again, let me emphasize that not having read the lawsuit papers I am only guessing and may be wrong by 180 degrees.

[luqmaninbmore]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

I'm not sure the Kindle falls into that category.

Well, the TTS is definately an aid for people with dyslexia, even if it is not ideal for people with severe visual impairment. I wonder if a coalition of dyslexic students could get involved in this court case opposing the visually impaired students' suit. I have also found the Kindle to be quite congenial to note taking in class. While the availability of, say, engineering textbooks may be limited, for a humanities student the Kindle (or other suitable ereader) can be a Godsend. I can save on the cost of textbooks (Plato is free online) and save on the cost of back therapy (those textbooks are heavy). I was very happy when my parapsychology Prof. told us to get the ebook version of his textbook (at a substantial discount from the dead tree version).

Luqman

[Kali Yuga]

Let's be clear about something here: We're only talking about two universities, not "all" or even "most" who are doing ebook pilot programs. And the lawsuit has been around for a few months now.

If the relevant course materials are made available to the disabled students in a timely fashion, then I don't see any discrimination. (If that isn't happening though, then I'd concur there is a potential problem.) And at the risk of being too platform-specific , presumably once the Kindle app runs on Macs, which has a built-in "Speech" software that converts text into speech, then all the advantages of a Kindle are pretty much available to the disabled students. I assume Windows has similar software available, but it's not built into the OS as far as I can tell.

I think it makes sense to pressure Amazon to make their devices easier for the disabled to use, but I still don't think a lawsuit that accuses various entities of discrimination is the optimal way to proceed.

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by MovieBird

You mean like braille?

I agree the Universities can boycott if they wish to force a change in features, but the lawsuit strikes me as without merit.

But Braille books are a separate "device". Are there combo braille and typeset books?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rhadin

As I understand it, the suit is about requiring students to use the Kindle as part of the university's requirements for a class. When the program was originally started, the idea was to replace printed textbooks with Kindled ebooks and require students to use the Kindle to access the coursework.

You are right, of course; if it became a requirement to use the Kindle, then it would have merit to object that it couldn't be used by a blind student. If, however, the Kindle was merely an alternative to paper textbook, or the audio versions which (one assumes) a blind student might use, then I don't see any issue.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by rhadin

Harry, you are right as regards Amazon but I think -- based solely on the little that has been presented here (and I freely admit I may well be wrong) -- that the lawsuit's purpose is being misconstrued.

As I understand it, the suit is about requiring students to use the Kindle as part of the university's requirements for a class. When the program was originally started, the idea was to replace printed textbooks with Kindled ebooks and require students to use the Kindle to access the coursework.

If this is correct, then the lawsuit makes sense to me: It is asking that the requirement of using a Kindle be eliminated. To require a particular course as part of graduation requirements, and to require the use of certain texts in that class, necessarily implies that (a) the course will be available to all students (after all, how could someone graduate if they haven't taken a required-to- graduate course?) and (b) that the required course materials will be accessible and available to all enrolled students.

I suspect that the Kindle program fails on the latter and that is what the lawsuit is about: stopping universities from requiring students to use material that they cannot access.

Again, let me emphasize that not having read the lawsuit papers I am only guessing and may be wrong by 180 degrees.

If what you say is true, if using a Kindle for a mandatory course is a requirement, not a choice, then the lawsuit makes perfect sense.

I read the link provided, however, and didn't get that definition. But then thats the problem with articles and links.......you don't always get the entire story.

Anyone care to elaborate on this?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by daffy4u

But Braille books are a separate "device". Are there combo braille and typeset books?

I don't know about books, but all medicines in the UK now seem to have their name (at least I assume it's the name!) on them in braille, on the same box as the name is printed visually.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore

I don't think its good that they are going to deny students access to something that would be helpful to the majority simply because it would not be as useful to a minority. I mean, if the school were going to give out free graphing calculators to the students should it refrain from doing so because there is no way for the visually impaired to read the display?

Exactly!


Don

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

I assume Windows has similar software available, but it's not built into the OS as far as I can tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Narrator

[Lady Blue]

With the populace in general, and lawyers in particular, having such a propensity for litigation of every conceivable nature, it surprises me somewhat that there has not yet been a huge lawsuit over the fact that our currency is not more user-friendly to the visually impaired. Braille bills?

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by Lady Blue

With the populace in general, and lawyers in particular, having such a propensity for litigation of every conceivable nature, it surprises me somewhat that there has not yet been a huge lawsuit over the fact that our currency is not more user-friendly to the visually impaired. Braille bills? Attachment 38847

I have heard of such a suit here in the states. I haven't followed it so I don't know the status.

[Sparrow]

In the UK, I think our coinage is designed with the visually impaired in mind.

[LDBoblo]

Wow I could think of quite a few reasons for universities to not bother with Kindles at their current stage of evolution, but I never even considered access to visually impaired folks!

[khalleron]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I do find this type of case to be wholly without merit. Yes, it's very unfortunate to be blind, but it's not Amazon's fault that somebody is, and they are surely under no "obligation" to make the Kindle usable by blind people any more than MP3 player manufacturers are under an obligation to make their devices usable by the deaf. It's certainly not "discrimination".

But Amazon's *intent*, as was stated in all the PR for the DX, is to replace all textbooks with a DX.

If the universities cannot find a way to accommodate the visually-impaired, they are violating the law in the US. The Americans with Disabilities Act *requires* public institutions to accommodate those with disabilities. To require students to use a device that is not accessible to everyone is actually illegal.

For your example, if universities required students to pass a music course, and required them to use a certain MP3 player, yes, they would be practicing discrimination and not only could be sued, but fined.

So, no, it may not be Amazon's 'fault', but the universities are absolutely doing the right (and legal) thing by dumping the DX in favor of the old print and braille technology.