But You Can't Read an Ebook in the Bath

[Slite]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Talking about 'complicated', you chaps and chappesses ever seen this clip about the medieval help desk? Great fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIuFfxg9saE

Oh yes, that one is a classic

[Shaggy]

Some people like what they are used to, and are either afraid of or resistant to learning something new. Since it's basically an irrational preference, they have to make up excuses for it.

In the back of their mind they may know full well that some of the things they're coming up with are nonsense, but it serves the purpose of making an excuse for why they don't have to change. Avoiding change is what their real goal is.

Things like "you can't read one in the bath", "you can't curl up with one", "they don't smell like a 'real' book", etc, are all completely illogical. But they make the person feel better about not wanting to embrace something new and instead stick with what they know.

I'm sure fans of the horse and buggy used to complain that they couldn't "curl up" or "take a bath" with their cars like they could their horses. I won't even mention the smell.

[Whin]

I have been waiting since the 1960's for the electronic book and reader to become available and have not been disappointed since my purchase of my Sony Prs 505. But Neil you said that 'books should not be considered ornaments' But I wonder if it is the very visual impact of treebooks, their colours, sizes, and images that bring back an instant (pleasurable) memory that makes treebooks more appealing to the non converted, who then say to you 'But You Can't Read an Ebook in the Bath' as an excuse. The ebook reader does not have a strong visual impact, and when I look at my stored ebooks; files on my computer with the same epub icon I sometimes wonder if I have read them, never mind 'I enjoyed that'. Some people like to display books. Maybe what we need next is virtual bookcase, to hang on our walls, where we can both visually see our books and download them instantly. Then there might be less objections to ebooks and ebook readers.


Elizabeth

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by LazyScot

I've yet to work out the correct response to that.

Ask them how they cope with all those big word things in the books.

[neilmarr]

Shaggy: you're right, of course. Tradition, fear of change, reluctance or inability of an old dog to learn new tricks does come into this ebook-in-the-bath objection. The same mentally brought us 1,000 years of the Dark Ages. Remember, though, that those who use the ebook-in-the-bath objection probably don't read at all and are just showing off ... come on; what true book lover would take a treasured volume into a bath?

Whin: I have this very weekend cleared my quite aesthetically pleasing library of nearly six hundred pretty treebooks, holding onto only those I cannot replace with ebooks and those with special, sentimental value. I have come to believe that if the 'very visual impact of treebooks ...' is the appeal, then the owner is missing the point.

Language, writing and print is there to broadcast ideas. If the package also looks pretty, fine; but there are those who value the package above its content. And they seem to be the loudest objectors to the ebook ideal.

Best. Neil

[jenieliser]

Well, I have to say I am guilty of loving physical books. I keep my favorites on my bookshelf. I do like the look, feel, and yes, the smell of paper books. I love to walk into a nicely kept library and just look around. (I covet the Beast's library in Beauty and the Beast )
Despite this, I prefer my Reader. It is more convenient and actually doesn't take away from the "reading experience." So, yes I will always keep my classics collection on my bookshelf. But that doesn't mean I don't love my Reader just as much.
That fact (that I love my paper books) combined with the fact that I absolutely love my Reader has made some of my friends-also pbook lovers-consider a Reader. Getting a Reader does not mean you are turning your back on your good old faves you've broken in over the years.

[neilmarr]

I love the first pyjamas my children and grandchildren ever wore, Jen. They're lovingly looked after and preciously stored. I would not ask my son and daughter and their offspring to wear them again, though. They're kept purely for sentimental reasons. They look pretty, bring back memories ... and are totally surplus to requirements. I'll never throw them out, of course; but if young butts feel the cold these days, I'll buy clothes that suit the job: just as stylish and surdy, but practical, too. N

[Elfwreck]

I wish the anti-ebook posts would focus on the *real* values that pbooks can offer but ebooks can't. Some of those might be fixed in the future, but for now--

• It's hard to flip through an ebook and find "that page with the chart about swords."
• Can't easily show off a selection of ebooks for someone else to read. For example, if a doctor's waiting room had half a dozen Sony Readers for patients, they'd have to scroll through lists, 10 books at a time, instead of viewing a whole rack at once.
• Lack of image-based view makes it harder to remember & find books. (There's a reason we use pictures on covers & decorate spines of books, and use different fonts for the plain spines.)
• Art books. Which has been discussed, and will continue to be a real concern.

There are ways that ebooks aren't as good as pbooks--but they have nothing to do with the smell of paper.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

I'm sure fans of the horse and buggy used to complain that they couldn't "curl up" or "take a bath" with their cars like they could their horses. I won't even mention the smell.

I think a lot of people care for the cars better than they would have cared for a horse

Originally Posted by jenieliser

Well, I have to say I am guilty of loving physical books. I keep my favorites on my bookshelf. I do like the look, feel, and yes, the smell of paper books. I love to walk into a nicely kept library and just look around. (I covet the Beast's library in Beauty and the Beast )
Despite this, I prefer my Reader. It is more convenient and actually doesn't take away from the "reading experience." So, yes I will always keep my classics collection on my bookshelf. But that doesn't mean I don't love my Reader just as much.
That fact (that I love my paper books) combined with the fact that I absolutely love my Reader has made some of my friends-also pbook lovers-consider a Reader. Getting a Reader does not mean you are turning your back on your good old faves you've broken in over the years.

Yes, that's how I see it as well. I love my pbooks and there are some that I will read instead of my ereader, even though that is more handy. I'm one of both worlds. I want the "want to have" of the ebook and the beauty of a full bookshelf.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I wish the anti-ebook posts would focus on the *real* values that pbooks can offer but ebooks can't. Some of those might be fixed in the future, but for now--

• It's hard to flip through an ebook and find "that page with the chart about swords."
• Can't easily show off a selection of ebooks for someone else to read. For example, if a doctor's waiting room had half a dozen Sony Readers for patients, they'd have to scroll through lists, 10 books at a time, instead of viewing a whole rack at once.
• Lack of image-based view makes it harder to remember & find books. (There's a reason we use pictures on covers & decorate spines of books, and use different fonts for the plain spines.)
• Art books. Which has been discussed, and will continue to be a real concern.

There are ways that ebooks aren't as good as pbooks--but they have nothing to do with the smell of paper.

One thing a lot of anti-ebook person forget is that there are various types of books. Some books you just must have in paper format. Simply because they are so awesome that it's just not possible to leave it at that bookstore. Some books just aren't made for readers, art books are one of them, but also some books where you have to go back and forth a lot. But there are also a lot of books that are perfect for a reader. Those Harlequin novels, books you'd just buy a mass-market paperback so you could read it once, anthologies (which are terribly heavy if the author is prodigious My Book of Amber is huge and the paper is thin!)

Most anti-ebook persons think that if you start reading electronically, you can never go back to paper, or something... While they can coexist peacefully!

[JeremyZ]

I don't let it drive me nuts. The important thing is that my eBook reader is right for me. We can't let ourselves get dragged down by the nay-sayers.

Whatever your hobby is, there's going to be someone criticizing it. I've got lots of hobbies.

Woodworking: "I do my drawers only with dovetails." or "Mortise and tenon is superior to dowel joinery."
Shooting: "Your gun is only a 9mm. I wouldn't trust it with my life."
R/C flying: "Your plane is only made of FOAM, while mine is balsa."
Driving: "Your car is a clunker, and takes a full 10 sec. to reach 60 mph."
Bicycling: "Your bike is heavy."
Chess: "You're only rated 1200? Oh...."

The best thing you can do is be secure in your choice, and reply with something like: "Thanks for your insight, but it works for me!"

[zacheryjensen]

To weigh in on a couple interesting points:

On Art Books: Depends on the art. If the point is a reproduction of works by a particular artist (the only type of art books I own) then I would far, far prefer them in digital form. I would prefer them delivered at super high resolution scans of the original works that I could zoom and pan and discover at far more detail than some printed book. Remember, art books are printed in pixels now too, they aren't giant photographs or something. Of course, I wouldn't use an e-ink reader for this. I would use my high resolution computer screen. You need to use the right tool for the job and a super high resolution image on a nice computer screen beats a book any day.

On Physical Books as Ornaments: I actually think this is a more important point than any others. People adore their books for the simple and immediate association the sight of its unique visage produces. It's nostalgia. I honestly think that the future of printed books lies in this area. I think paperbacks and your boring run-of-the-mill hard covers are going to shrink to obscurity and be replaced by eBooks. I believe publishers are attracted to greater control over their wares. I think swapping sites and used book sales are the real motivation behind eBook support from publishers. Oh by the way. I work for a publisher, largest in the world, so I have a little insight. I think that physical books will become, out of necessity, works of art on their own. I expect a person in the future will only buy printed books when they really love them and won't mind spending a larger sum for getting something unique, perhaps signed or hand stitched.

On Browsing Libraries: I have cover images on all of my eBooks and I quite enjoy browsing them in coverflow on my iPhone in Stanza. There is absolutely no reason browsing electronic media can't be made as enjoyable or more-so than physical browsing. It's a matter of getting the software going and a lot of it is there if you look in the right places.

Right now eBook Reader technology is fledgling and suffering from a rush to market as a long sought-after opportunity for them is finally opening up. This will change, just as digital music players improved, so will electronic reading experiences.

But, and here's the real kicker, you shouldn't worry about paper books. They only exist now because they were the logistically most practical method of disseminating ideas. The fact that they are the size they are, a balance between how much can be printed without wasting time and money and how much a person will be willing to pay attention to is not an aspect unrelated to the technology itself. In reality, I don't think the book as you know it today has much of a life left.

I think we'll see more arbitrary forms of communication of stories, facts, etc. The short story, for example, is far more practically distributed in the digital realm. You don't need to worry if it's enough pages to warrant a book, or find a set of them to warrant a book, or find a publisher, you can just post your short story on a blog site and point people at it.

A novel can be distributed chapter by chapter, serially, like the old digest magazines. I don't think people should be so tied to the status quo. The status quo of books only exists because that is what works best for the tech.

A point was made during an Apple keynote about how fewer than 40% of Americans read more than 1 book in a year. I think that's interesting because other statistics show people are now reading more than every before, historically. But they aren't reading novels. They're reading websites, articles, blog posts, some are fictional some opinion, some facts, etc. Authors of fiction are showing up in these same realms. Short stores show up on Tor's website monthly and some of my favorite authors like Doctorow post their short works for free all the time.

What's important is that the consumer not lose control. ebook reader, paper, computer screen, tablet, netbook, whatever it shouldn't matter. You should be able to consume a story however you like. All that is required is standard formats. Standard html, standard ePub, even *shiver* PDF. Nobody has to give up their precious paper books if the efforts in electronic books are focused on standards and openness. Got a book you and your wife both like? She hates ebook readers? Go to kinko's and use the POD machine to make a paper copy for her.

The future could be bright and there's no reason whatsoever to think that people afraid of change will stop technological progress. They never have, and never will. So enjoy your eBook experience however you like it best and stop trying to sell every random jerk on the idea. Let Amazon, Sony, Cybook, Barnes & Noble, Plastic Logic, iRex, Best Buy, Penguin, Tor, Harper Collins, etc. etc. do it. They have millions of dollars at stake here and their business is dying a painful death. The technology WILL move along whether those naysayers join us or not.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by zacheryjensen

To weigh in on a couple interesting points:

On Art Books: Depends on the art. If the point is a reproduction of works by a particular artist (the only type of art books I own) then I would far, far prefer them in digital form. I would prefer them delivered at super high resolution scans of the original works that I could zoom and pan and discover at far more detail than some printed book. Remember, art books are printed in pixels now too, they aren't giant photographs or something. Of course, I wouldn't use an e-ink reader for this. I would use my high resolution computer screen. You need to use the right tool for the job and a super high resolution image on a nice computer screen beats a book any day.

Wouldn't there be issues with colour settings on the PC?
With an art pbook, you get it as the producers intended - two PCs would be unlikely to display the images the same way.

[neilmarr]

What a positive, encouraging post, Zachery. Thanks for helping make my day even brighter. And the only thing I can find to disagree with in your message is advice that if your wife doesn't like ebooks you should go to Kinkos and run off a PoD for her. SHE should go to Kinkos, not you. Not your fault she's an ol' stick-in-the-mud treebookworm. Cheers. Neil

[jayne80]

I love my ereader, and wouldn't be with without, but if i'm feeling down or depressed, nothing cheers me up faster than and trip to the book shop, (not to buy) but to look at, to pick up and and to flick through, read the back covers (and maybe making a list of books to look for in ebooks). For the convienience of reading a fiction book give me ebooks, but for choosing a book to read or trying to find one you know you have but you can't quite remember the name you cannot beat the ease of picking a book off the shelf and reading the back cover.

on another note when I got my cybook my husband said, 'oh i can't read that, i don't like the way it flashes between pages', but after i pursuaded him to try it for a month i had a great deal of trouble getting it back off him. now he has one of his own and has probably read more books this year than the previous 7 years we have been together.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

The next time I read some smug newspaper columnist, show-off blogger, reading/writing forum correspondent, friend, neighbour or relative tell me "but you can't read an ebook in the bath", I swear I will draw back my first and smack him in the nose (even if the him is a her).

HuffPo commenter TazoWolf doesn't agree that you can't read an eBook in the bath. View her post here. (Wait for the page to autoscroll to her comment.) I have a lame comment afterward which you are free to ignore. (Most folks do.)

Originally Posted by Gaurnim

No, next time you mention AquaPac and stuff like that that really allow you to read in bath without any fear for your device even if you drop it in the water ...

I'll have to check into the AquaPac products. Thanks for mentioning this.

Originally Posted by Gaurnim

... Ever tried to turn pages on a pbook inside a waterproff bag ? ...

Good point!

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Yeah ... Slite ... the smell of books. Try a soft leather cover for your reader and you get the look, the feel AND the smell of the highest quality hardback possible (and you don't need two hands to hold it) ...

And if you leave the cover out in the rain in a corner of the garden for a couple of weeks before using it, you get the smell of old books!

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

I wish the anti-ebook posts would focus on the *real* values that pbooks can offer but ebooks can't. Some of those might be fixed in the future, but for now-- ...[*]Can't easily show off a selection of ebooks for someone else to read ...

Can't argue with that point. A bookcase that contains only an eReader doesn't exactly impress the friends, neighbors, and guests with one's intellectual prowess, does it?