Graphic novels, comics, manga on the PRS 600? - Page 2

Von Allan · 10-25-2009, 10:08 PM

Hi all,

This is going to be slightly off topic so apologies for that. I'm trying to figure out some of the formatting issues of turning my own comics into a readable PDF on the Sony Reader. I've uploaded two small PDFs using the Sony Reader guidelines - both are two pages in length but one is done at a higher DPI than what Sony recommends, mainly because I'm concerned about readability at Sony's recommended DPI of 166. I'm very curious to know what these look like on a Sony Reader and I'm hoping a few of you wouldn't mind giving it a shot and letting me know.

I don't want to cross-post, so here's the thread with the two files:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...30&postcount=6

Thanks very much in advance!

ardeegee · 10-25-2009, 10:48 PM

As I've mentioned on other threads, if you want to know how comics or manga will look on your reader, then print the pages on a sheet of paper at the same size as the screen of the reader you are thinking of buying. But it really depends on how you read. If you are going to be reading with the reader held at or near waist-level, such as with the reader on your lap, or on a table, then no-- you really aren't going to be able to read comics very well. But if you read with the book much closer to your face, in the "curled up on the couch" position or reading in bed, then yes, if you have decent eyesight (or good glasses, I guess) then there is no problem reading comics on the 300 (which I have) and therefore even less problem on a 600.

I bought my 300 with the intention of reading novels and non-fiction plus manga, but didn't think comics would be readable. After being found wrong, I have read many more comics in the past 2 month of having a reader than I have in all the 20 (give or take) years since I quit collecting as a kid (after the rise to $1.00 per issue for the various comics I read started taking too much of my allowance.) I have read literally hundreds of comics on my 300 since I've had it (converting CBRs to LRFs with the command-line comiclrf.exe.)

Von Allan · 10-25-2009, 11:21 PM

I appreciate that, but the problem here is that I'm a publisher as well as a reader so what I think looks passable to me personally may not to someone else. That's the crux of the problem I'm facing. So what I need to know is what is passable to the most people when it comes to my content. It's tricky, since I doubt it'll please everyone. But then, I'm not planning on charging anyone for it, either.

On prices: I hear you. I vividly remember when comics went from 75 cents to $1.00 - and then jumping, at least here in Canada, very quickly to $1.25. And on and on. I find it amazing that Marvel is now producing 32 page comics at a $3.99 cover price. They wonder why they've bled readers?

ardeegee · 10-26-2009, 11:27 AM

If the question is-- is the experience of reading comics on a Sony Reader as good as the experience reading a paper copy, then the answer is simple-- no. Not even close.

But the gigantic elephant in the middle of the room everyone is trying to ignore in all the various threads here about comics and manga on ebook readers is that, when people are talking about comics and manga on the readers, they are talking about pirated comics and manga on the readers 99 44/100ths percent of the time, especially all the discussions you will find about CBR/CBZ files. The number of official comics and manga available for ebook readers is a droplet in the torrent of comics and manga available as pirate CBR/CBZ files.

So we aren't talking about the choice between the paper comic and the ebook reader comic-- we are talking about the choice between the ebook reader comic and reading it off the screen of a full PC. And the convenience of being able to carry around a stack of comics on my ebook reader so that I can read it anywhere instead of from the transmissive display on my desktop computer, to me, trumps the drawbacks of the small text and the black and white images. But if I was actually paying for the comics, I'd buy the paper versions every time (assuming that the prices were close.)

Von Allan · 10-26-2009, 11:59 AM

Yes, I figured as much. And I figure I'm a bit odd since I'm actually talking about an authorized ebook version and not a pirated copy. I also used to run a bookstore and I do believe very much in print - I hear you on that front. But I also really like ebooks and reading on the screen in general. Is it the same as curling up with a good hard copy book? No. But that said, it doesn't bug me like it bugs some people.

In addition to that, I tend to put a lot of weight on the Tim O'Reilly line: "Obscurity is a far greater threat to authors and creative artists than piracy." That's partially why I did my comic as a free webcomic in the first place. And since it's a black and white comic with grey watercolour washes, it would seem to be a good fit for black and white ereaders like the Kindle and Sony Reader.

Now, that said my book is available as a print collection (shameless plug - it's $12.95 US for 148 pages on Amazon - I think that's a fair price for a black and white graphic novel). But I'm also under no illusions that it's going to sell particularly well. It probably won't. Hell, as a ex-retailer I'm also under no illusions with how most books fair in general. It's hard out there. Very, very hard. In my particular case, I'm trying to build a career one step at a time. While I realize not everyone will like my book, I would at least like it to be as accessible as possible - and that means as many formats as possible.

What I may wind up doing is just creating CBR/CBZ files and using Calibre to try and convert it to a Sony Reader format instead of mucking around too much with PDFs. Part of my problem is I'm used to dealing with a high-rez documents for printing - low rez is actually challenging from this point of view.

Haesslich · 10-26-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Allan

Yes, I figured as much. And I figure I'm a bit odd since I'm actually talking about an authorized ebook version and not a pirated copy. I also used to run a bookstore and I do believe very much in print - I hear you on that front. But I also really like ebooks and reading on the screen in general. Is it the same as curling up with a good hard copy book? No. But that said, it doesn't bug me like it bugs some people.

In addition to that, I tend to put a lot of weight on the Tim O'Reilly line: "Obscurity is a far greater threat to authors and creative artists than piracy." That's partially why I did my comic as a free webcomic in the first place. And since it's a black and white comic with grey watercolour washes, it would seem to be a good fit for black and white ereaders like the Kindle and Sony Reader.

Now, that said my book is available as a print collection (shameless plug - it's $12.95 US for 148 pages on Amazon - I think that's a fair price for a black and white graphic novel). But I'm also under no illusions that it's going to sell particularly well. It probably won't. Hell, as a ex-retailer I'm also under no illusions with how most books fair in general. It's hard out there. Very, very hard. In my particular case, I'm trying to build a career one step at a time. While I realize not everyone will like my book, I would at least like it to be as accessible as possible - and that means as many formats as possible.

What I may wind up doing is just creating CBR/CBZ files and using Calibre to try and convert it to a Sony Reader format instead of mucking around too much with PDFs. Part of my problem is I'm used to dealing with a high-rez documents for printing - low rez is actually challenging from this point of view.

One thing I'll note: the free Hugo-award celebratory version of Schlock Mercenary: The Body Politic would probably look just fine, even if it's color... although you'd have to make sure it was scaled for the right dimensions of the reader (think 6-8" screens with similar resolution at this time), and you'd have to do the cleanup on PC to make sure that the conversion to grayscale doesn't go to hell.

Von Allan · 10-26-2009, 10:16 PM

That's a good point. I wouldn't be surprised if someone (maybe Howard Taylor himself) has already done this, too. SM is fun! And I have a great deal of respect for how Taylor has grown his career, too.

Haesslich · 10-27-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Allan

That's a good point. I wouldn't be surprised if someone (maybe Howard Taylor himself) has already done this, too. SM is fun! And I have a great deal of respect for how Taylor has grown his career, too.

He only did it for the one book to celebrate the Hugo Award. The reason I mentioned it above was because it's one webcomic which has released a 'book' in PDF format, and did so from the original computer source files so we're not dealing with scans of printed material (so the picture quality is maximized, outside of whatever artifacts the conversion-to-PDF would've introduced).

acidzebra · 10-27-2009, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardeegee

If the question is-- is the experience of reading comics on a Sony Reader as good as the experience reading a paper copy, then the answer is simple-- no. Not even close.

When we are talking about generic small-form factor B&W manga, I disagree. If we are talking about 'Western' large comics with color, smallish fonts, I fully agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardeegee

The number of official comics and manga available for ebook readers is a droplet in the torrent of comics and manga available as pirate CBR/CBZ files.

Paper or electronic, 99.999% of the stuff I read isn't even available in my neck of the woods. Hell, there hasn't even been an official English translation for most of it.

Rafaelo4 · 10-28-2009, 12:53 AM

Well I can only tell about my experience and testing via PSR-600.

I managed to convert (using Calibre) some 25GB of comics (CBR/CBZ) in about
9 GB of .lrf which PSR-600 is reading without problems.Sharpness,conrast,font size/clarity all beautifull.

I tested various commics:

From Italy:

Nathan Never, Martin Mystere (Marti Misterija), Zagor Te-Nay, Dylan Dog, Magicni Vetar, Tex Willer, Mister No, Dampyr, Ken Parker, Nick Raider (Nik Rajder), Komandant Mark, Brad Barron, Gordon Link, Leo Pulp, Ostali Bonelli junaci, Kapetan Miki, Veliki Blek, Dzudas, Lazarus Ledd, Kit Teler, Karabina Slim, Tim i Dasti, MET MERIOT,

From France and Belgium:

Gaston, Bernard Prins, Buddy Longway, Lik Orijan, Bluberi, Torgal, XIII, Talicni Tom, Aster Blistok, Ridjobradi gusar, Asterix, Rahan, Ramiro, Jeremiah, Hugo Pratt, Tin Tin, Spiro i Fantazije, Tangi i Laverdir, Komanca, Boa Mori, Umpah Pah, Bruno Brazil, Dzonatan Kartland, Largo Winch, Valerijan, Iznogud, Uranela, Bob Moran, Druna, Hombre, Jugurtha, Lester Kokni, Tigar Dzo, Sami, Mornar Nik i Crna Brada, Mek Koj, Dzeri Spring, Natasa

Some American comics: Mandrak,Conan,Tarsan,Ramiro......etc

I tested each of these on PRS-600 and it took me 2 weeks ^^ and Calibre did beautiful job with poorer scans.

I havent tried many Mangas but since they are usually in small format quality
should be good.

My 2 cents.

10-26-2009, 11:27 AM	#19
ardeegee Maratus speciosus butt Posts: 3,292 Karma: 1162698 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-350	If the question is-- is the experience of reading comics on a Sony Reader as good as the experience reading a paper copy, then the answer is simple-- no. Not even close. But the gigantic elephant in the middle of the room everyone is trying to ignore in all the various threads here about comics and manga on ebook readers is that, when people are talking about comics and manga on the readers, they are talking about pirated comics and manga on the readers 99 44/100ths percent of the time, especially all the discussions you will find about CBR/CBZ files. The number of official comics and manga available for ebook readers is a droplet in the torrent of comics and manga available as pirate CBR/CBZ files. So we aren't talking about the choice between the paper comic and the ebook reader comic-- we are talking about the choice between the ebook reader comic and reading it off the screen of a full PC. And the convenience of being able to carry around a stack of comics on my ebook reader so that I can read it anywhere instead of from the transmissive display on my desktop computer, to me, trumps the drawbacks of the small text and the black and white images. But if I was actually paying for the comics, I'd buy the paper versions every time (assuming that the prices were close.) Last edited by ardeegee; 10-26-2009 at 11:30 AM.

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10-25-2009, 10:08 PM	#16
Von Allan Writer/Artist guy Posts: 20 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Device: Sony Reader PRS-300	Hi all, This is going to be slightly off topic so apologies for that. I'm trying to figure out some of the formatting issues of turning my own comics into a readable PDF on the Sony Reader. I've uploaded two small PDFs using the Sony Reader guidelines - both are two pages in length but one is done at a higher DPI than what Sony recommends, mainly because I'm concerned about readability at Sony's recommended DPI of 166. I'm very curious to know what these look like on a Sony Reader and I'm hoping a few of you wouldn't mind giving it a shot and letting me know. I don't want to cross-post, so here's the thread with the two files: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...30&postcount=6 Thanks very much in advance!

10-25-2009, 10:48 PM	#17
ardeegee Maratus speciosus butt Posts: 3,292 Karma: 1162698 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-350	As I've mentioned on other threads, if you want to know how comics or manga will look on your reader, then print the pages on a sheet of paper at the same size as the screen of the reader you are thinking of buying. But it really depends on how you read. If you are going to be reading with the reader held at or near waist-level, such as with the reader on your lap, or on a table, then no-- you really aren't going to be able to read comics very well. But if you read with the book much closer to your face, in the "curled up on the couch" position or reading in bed, then yes, if you have decent eyesight (or good glasses, I guess) then there is no problem reading comics on the 300 (which I have) and therefore even less problem on a 600. I bought my 300 with the intention of reading novels and non-fiction plus manga, but didn't think comics would be readable. After being found wrong, I have read many more comics in the past 2 month of having a reader than I have in all the 20 (give or take) years since I quit collecting as a kid (after the rise to $1.00 per issue for the various comics I read started taking too much of my allowance.) I have read literally hundreds of comics on my 300 since I've had it (converting CBRs to LRFs with the command-line comiclrf.exe.)

10-25-2009, 11:21 PM	#18
Von Allan Writer/Artist guy Posts: 20 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Device: Sony Reader PRS-300	I appreciate that, but the problem here is that I'm a publisher as well as a reader so what I think looks passable to me personally may not to someone else. That's the crux of the problem I'm facing. So what I need to know is what is passable to the most people when it comes to my content. It's tricky, since I doubt it'll please everyone. But then, I'm not planning on charging anyone for it, either. On prices: I hear you. I vividly remember when comics went from 75 cents to $1.00 - and then jumping, at least here in Canada, very quickly to $1.25. And on and on. I find it amazing that Marvel is now producing 32 page comics at a $3.99 cover price. They wonder why they've bled readers?

10-26-2009, 11:59 AM	#20
Von Allan Writer/Artist guy Posts: 20 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Device: Sony Reader PRS-300	Yes, I figured as much. And I figure I'm a bit odd since I'm actually talking about an authorized ebook version and not a pirated copy. I also used to run a bookstore and I do believe very much in print - I hear you on that front. But I also really like ebooks and reading on the screen in general. Is it the same as curling up with a good hard copy book? No. But that said, it doesn't bug me like it bugs some people. In addition to that, I tend to put a lot of weight on the Tim O'Reilly line: "Obscurity is a far greater threat to authors and creative artists than piracy." That's partially why I did my comic as a free webcomic in the first place. And since it's a black and white comic with grey watercolour washes, it would seem to be a good fit for black and white ereaders like the Kindle and Sony Reader. Now, that said my book is available as a print collection (shameless plug - it's $12.95 US for 148 pages on Amazon - I think that's a fair price for a black and white graphic novel). But I'm also under no illusions that it's going to sell particularly well. It probably won't. Hell, as a ex-retailer I'm also under no illusions with how most books fair in general. It's hard out there. Very, very hard. In my particular case, I'm trying to build a career one step at a time. While I realize not everyone will like my book, I would at least like it to be as accessible as possible - and that means as many formats as possible. What I may wind up doing is just creating CBR/CBZ files and using Calibre to try and convert it to a Sony Reader format instead of mucking around too much with PDFs. Part of my problem is I'm used to dealing with a high-rez documents for printing - low rez is actually challenging from this point of view.

10-26-2009, 10:16 PM	#22
Von Allan Writer/Artist guy Posts: 20 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Device: Sony Reader PRS-300	That's a good point. I wouldn't be surprised if someone (maybe Howard Taylor himself) has already done this, too. SM is fun! And I have a great deal of respect for how Taylor has grown his career, too.

10-28-2009, 12:53 AM	#25
Rafaelo4 Sky Plane Dweller Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: PRS-600	Well I can only tell about my experience and testing via PSR-600. I managed to convert (using Calibre) some 25GB of comics (CBR/CBZ) in about 9 GB of .lrf which PSR-600 is reading without problems.Sharpness,conrast,font size/clarity all beautifull. I tested various commics: From Italy: Nathan Never, Martin Mystere (Marti Misterija), Zagor Te-Nay, Dylan Dog, Magicni Vetar, Tex Willer, Mister No, Dampyr, Ken Parker, Nick Raider (Nik Rajder), Komandant Mark, Brad Barron, Gordon Link, Leo Pulp, Ostali Bonelli junaci, Kapetan Miki, Veliki Blek, Dzudas, Lazarus Ledd, Kit Teler, Karabina Slim, Tim i Dasti, MET MERIOT, From France and Belgium: Gaston, Bernard Prins, Buddy Longway, Lik Orijan, Bluberi, Torgal, XIII, Talicni Tom, Aster Blistok, Ridjobradi gusar, Asterix, Rahan, Ramiro, Jeremiah, Hugo Pratt, Tin Tin, Spiro i Fantazije, Tangi i Laverdir, Komanca, Boa Mori, Umpah Pah, Bruno Brazil, Dzonatan Kartland, Largo Winch, Valerijan, Iznogud, Uranela, Bob Moran, Druna, Hombre, Jugurtha, Lester Kokni, Tigar Dzo, Sami, Mornar Nik i Crna Brada, Mek Koj, Dzeri Spring, Natasa Some American comics: Mandrak,Conan,Tarsan,Ramiro......etc I tested each of these on PRS-600 and it took me 2 weeks ^^ and Calibre did beautiful job with poorer scans. I havent tried many Mangas but since they are usually in small format quality should be good. My 2 cents.

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