html formatting question

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

One thing to consider is that, for a Mobi book, using "<p>" leaves a small gap between the paragraphs, whereas using "<div>" does not.

But if you use Calibre to convert to Mobipocket, that <p> does not have to leave any gaps between paragraphs.

[alecE]

[QUOTE=I appreciate you giving the references for W3C HTML and CSS; can you point me to a site or sites which discusses valid HTML/CSS for ebooks? The people who post on the c.i.w.a.h. usenet group have been helpful, but I'm sure they are not impressed by the limitations of ebook formats.

Regards, Alex[/QUOTE]

In addition to QZ's expert directions, there's the ultimate in 'epub formatting for dummies' at http://www.tayefeh.de/2009/04/creati...-sonys-reader/. (Sorry, *this* dummy hasn't sussed out how to do a nice hyperlink yet); as the link indicates, this is focused on the Sony reader, but 'cos it uses Calibre for the conversion the epub output is generic. Hope this helps.

[AlexBell]

Originally Posted by alecE

In addition to QZ's expert directions, there's the ultimate in 'epub formatting for dummies' at http://www.tayefeh.de/2009/04/creati...-sonys-reader/. (Sorry, *this* dummy hasn't sussed out how to do a nice hyperlink yet); as the link indicates, this is focused on the Sony reader, but 'cos it uses Calibre for the conversion the epub output is generic. Hope this helps.

Many thanks, alecE. I've printed out the first two pages for review off line.

Regards, Alex

[rogue_ronin]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

The ebook I'm working on right now was written in 1996. The formatting is so horrendously awful that it's beyond description.

Fortunately the bad html has presented me with an opportunity. From what I can tell only tag used is the opening <p> tag, not div, span. There are no </p> tags. This means that I can replace the tag with whatever I want and not mess up the formatting.

What tag should I use, div, p, span, or some combination of the above? I will be using classes, of course.

If you want some serious overkill, you can check out my attempt at an xHTML microformat here.

Scroll to the end for the most recent.

m a r

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

But MobiCreator will recognize and properly use the correct html for the above. Why not use it, and avoid the crap that Mobipocket suggests?

Because it's not what mobipocket "suggests", but what the format supports. I'm sure what MobiCreator just transforms standard HTML into the special HTML, it's good when it works (I guess, I've never used it), but if you rely on it always doing the right thing, you'll be surprised sooner or later: it can't do anything with right margins, for instance.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by AlexBell

Thanks, Zelda. That's very useful information.

I'll be changing to epub myself as soon as Bookeen releases the new firmware and I get my first Cybook back from them.

Regards, Alex

i think you'll be really pleased to discover what nice formatting you can do with epub. and it's really not complicated at all, once you've understood the basics. don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have in the epub forum here ; like i said, we have some real experts around here and you're sure to get some good advice ! there are a few stickies in there too which might be helpful to you, take a look.

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by Jellby

Because it's not what mobipocket "suggests", but what the format supports. I'm sure what MobiCreator just transforms standard HTML into the special HTML, it's good when it works (I guess, I've never used it), but if you rely on it always doing the right thing, you'll be surprised sooner or later: it can't do anything with right margins, for instance.

I still think the proper html should be used, if only becuase doing so means you don't have to format the same ebook twice.

[HarryT]

I just have a standard set of search and replace operations I do to convert HTML into "Mobi-HTML" and that takes care of almost all of it. Takes literally seconds.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But if you use Calibre to convert to Mobipocket, that <p> does not have to leave any gaps between paragraphs.

It is not the file format but the reader that interprets this. Mobi reader inserts 2 extra pixels on the <p> tag resulting in a small additional gap. The program used to make the file does not matter.

Dale

[Nate the great]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I just have a standard set of search and replace operations I do to convert HTML into "Mobi-HTML" and that takes care of almost all of it. Takes literally seconds.

That doesn't change the fact that you're doing the same work twice. Duplicate work is a waste, no matte how little time it takes.

[rogue_ronin]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

That doesn't change the fact that you're doing the same work twice. Duplicate work is a waste, no matte how little time it takes.

That's true, but if you find that you are working toward two mutually exclusive targets (mobipocket and the old REB1100, say) you might find that Dale had a point.

You probably aren't doing that, so this may seem irrelevant.

I am of a mind that you write "pure" xhtml, then convert it to your target's quirks using the regex/macros of your html/text editor. Your goal of finding good xhtml that mobipocket recognizes is excellent for simplifying any such process, however.

My unnecessary .02,

m a r

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by Jellby

For normal paragraphs, use <p></p>. Mobipocket displays them indented and with a little vertical space, but that should be customizable in the viewer (even if often it is not). It can be overriden, anyway, with (in mobipocket pseudo-HTML) <p width=0 height=0>.

Now, that makes me, as a web-developer shudder... First, you miss the quotes, second, it makes no sense at all. A paragraph with a width of 0??? What you're looking for is the bottom and left padding.

[Jellby]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Now, that makes me, as a web-developer shudder... First, you miss the quotes, second, it makes no sense at all. A paragraph with a width of 0??? What you're looking for is the bottom and left padding.

No, in mobipocket dialect "height" means the space above (top padding or margin), and "width" means indent for paragraphs.

[HarryT]

... and you can put the quotes in if it makes you happy to do so .

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

Now, that makes me, as a web-developer shudder... First, you miss the quotes, second, it makes no sense at all.

Mobipocket-specific coding. Not standard HTML at all. Mobipocket Creator will do the conversion from standard HTML to Mobipocket HTML for you.