The e-book challenge: Sony Reader PRS-700 takes on Amazon's Kindle 2 - Page 2

astrodad · 03-31-2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhadin

Gideon, do you know if there are books that most people might be interested in that are only available for the Kindle, as opposed to being available in a format that is either readable by the Sony or convertible to a Sony-readable format? (Not talking about price or comparing Sony store numbers to Kindle store numbers, just availability in the ebook marketplace.)

I may be wrong, but my understanding was that there are very few books that can only be read on a Kindle. I understand that more books, in raw numbers, are available at the Kindle store than at the Sony store, but for my buying, at least half of all the ebooks I have bought have been from somewhere other than the Sony store.

I've never been able to find a book that I wanted that wasn't available for both platforms. There is the convenience factor of the Kindle, which shouldn't be ignored, but it is just that: a convenience. If I've ever been unable to find an ebook for a title, it was always not available on either platform.

dmaul1114 · 03-31-2009, 03:42 PM

I did a good bit of research trying to decide Sony vs. Kindle and went with a used Kindle 1.

The Kindle store and wireless access where the main factors. More books in kindle store and every book I was interested in and looked up was cheaper on the kindle store, and I like not having to hook up to a PC to transfer stuff.

I'm not one to shop around, get books from different places etc.--just the Kindle store and Feedbooks mainly so the Kindle fit my needs best as convenience was the main concern.

The DRM bothers me fundamentally--but the Sony store books are DRMed as well and honestly I'm not much affected with eBooks (vs. say music) as I pretty much never re-read a book. And anything I do re-read I want a paper book of anyway.

Gideon · 03-31-2009, 04:59 PM

I did some tests a while back (may be able to find it around here). Basically... Out of the last 13 books I purchased only two or three were available in any store besides the Kindle store. And the Kindle store had them MUCH cheaper (often as much as 50% cheaper).

It's not really just numbers, though. Technically, with this Google deal sony has more now. But it's 100 year old books in the public domain... most of the public domain people may want is available across the board. I'm not sure that means anything, then.

As to what most people want... I dunno. I don't read like most people. I imagine best sellers are probably available everywhere. But I tend to read non-fiction, and the Kindle absolutely owns the genre.

To me it is the issue. I had a Sony reader, and liked it, but I was frustrated at not being able to find ANYTHING I wanted for it, and if I did - it was extraordinarily expensive for an ebook. I still can't get a LOT of what I want, but I can get a decent amount.

It does always suck when you get stuck with a topaz file, though. Doesn't happen often.

The content discussion always has to be couched in "what you read." If you read things in the public domain (classics, etc) almost exclusively - anything will work. If you read a lot of genre fiction (scifi, romance, etc.) you'll have a lot of options across the board. If you read new releases you'll have a lot of options.

But if you read more nonfiction, you don't have a lot of options. If you want newspapers and magazines (and for some reason calibre isn't an option), you don't have a lot of good options. Even if you read a bit more... vague fiction, you don't have a lot of options. So it's really always about what you read, how you're going to do it.

The good news is that on the Kindle... you're not limited much. Prices are better most the time, and very little is available for other formats that is not available for the Kindle.

If that changes, and someone else gets the goods.. I'll jump ship. I'm only interested in content and price. Brand loyalty is for suckers.

katewilly · 03-31-2009, 11:41 PM

I don't think Kindle can crown itself as the Ipod of the reading world yet. Reading is a little more complicated than listening and there has to be a multitude of hardware form factors to satisfy the masses.

My prediction...B&N will take over the Sony bookstore (if Sony is truly suffering hard times), as it did FW, and capitalize on offering multiple file formats, serving different hardware platforms, plus adding incentives in its brick stores.

I can understand that a lot of users love their Kindles and are really attracted by its features. It is one of many possibilities for people who love to read. And I hope it continues to be successful for its followers.

However, I haven't found a Kindle feature yet that I MUST have. Because I'm home-bound, I don't need WhisperNet, and I'm not comfortable with a lot of buttons that I don't need, until I absolutely need them. I like the virtual keyboard of my Sony 700. But that's just me, and illustrates the different preferences amongst human readers.

Between PD books, Sony bookstore, and FW membership/micropay (which offers a lot of gift opportunities for my family), I've only rarely paid more than $10 for a book. And I have yet to find where Amazon offered something that wasn't available elsewhere for no more than a $1.00 more, and sometimes I've paid less.

TheRealBillc · 04-01-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katewilly

Because I'm home-bound, I don't need WhisperNet,

One of the reasons I bought a Kindle 2 for my wife is because she doesn't drive, and public transportation is difficult because of her two hip replacements. Since she likes books by NY Times best selling authors, the whispernet feature allows her to browse for new books from her favorite authors at home, without any longer having to wait for me to bring her to a bookstore. I would think that since you are also homebound, that you would find that to be an important feature as well.

Penforhire · 04-01-2009, 11:01 AM

I think Kate means having a PC at home is sufficient to shop freely. Most of us with high-speed internet access have an always-on connection. Whispernet seems really convenient when you're NOT home or if you're not PC literate.

lilac_jive · 04-01-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealBillc

One of the reasons I bought a Kindle 2 for my wife is because she doesn't drive, and public transportation is difficult because of her two hip replacements. Since she likes books by NY Times best selling authors, the whispernet feature allows her to browse for new books from her favorite authors at home, without any longer having to wait for me to bring her to a bookstore. I would think that since you are also homebound, that you would find that to be an important feature as well.

I think she means that she can just use her computer, she doesn't need whispernet because she'll always be around her computer.

Volonox · 04-01-2009, 11:20 AM

There is a significant difference between books and music that many fail to see. While it is important to be able to buy a music track on the go, which would normally cost less than a buck and is less than 5 minutes in length, buying books on the go isn't that significant in comparison.

I buy a music track just to try it out and see whether that artist's work is worth listening too or not. But since reading books takes a significantly longer time and is a far more cerebral activity, I usually tend to read at least a couple of reviews before deciding to buy it and it will take me days to weeks to finish reading it. So, I can buy a couple of books a month and I am sure I will have enough time on a PC to do that, while I wouldn't want to get on a computer every time I want to buy a song.

Also, the audiences are very different. Music is more mainstream and almost everybody listens to it, while reading has a smaller audience and generally has a higher rate of well-educated people (no statistics here, just my observation).

There isn't much money to be made in books compared to music. I don't know why Amazon is so eager to claim this market for itself, and comparing itself to Apple and its iPod is ridiculous in my opinion.

I'm off-topic here, am I not?

Jovvi · 04-01-2009, 12:03 PM

I think it was a very interesting article, but... As always very US-centered.

Yes I would love to be able to use whispernet to download books, but Amazon just won´t let me since they won´t sell a Kindle to me. Hopefully in the future other reading devices will have similar features, so we won´t have to long for a Kindle.

I often feel that you Kindle owners are just telling everybody to get a Kindle cause it´s great, but then forgets those of us that can´t get it. Yes I know, I could perhaps get one at ebay using some eleborate scheme, but what would be the point? If I could not get the (for me) most interesting feature (whispernet and the easy way to purcase books via kindlestore). The rest of the features of the Kindle doesn´t differ that much to the other devises, some may even be better (nicer looking, touchscreen, lighter, more formats and so on).

Clara

katewilly · 04-01-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penforhire

I think Kate means having a PC at home is sufficient to shop freely. Most of us with high-speed internet access have an always-on connection. Whispernet seems really convenient when you're NOT home or if you're not PC literate.

Yep, that's what I meant. I'm not homebound in the since that I can't get out and drive, go shopping etc., however, I'm at home most of the day, and I can do my shopping with my DSL. I just don't really have a need for the whispernet.

kevindorsey · 04-01-2009, 01:54 PM

Amazon never had a launch of a product of this magnitude(and making electronics has never been thier forte anyways), and Sony is a seasoned veteran in these games. I'd say the losses that they are experiencing are just part of the global game that has enveloped every large company, and doesn't really damper their chances of making some money in this market. I'm almost positive that Sony has put out a better overall product out there, and will slowly gain ground on the Kindle.

lilac_jive · 04-01-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindorsey

Amazon never had a launch of a product of this magnitude(and making electronics has never been thier forte anyways), and Sony is a seasoned veteran in these games. I'd say the losses that they are experiencing are just part of the global game that has enveloped every large company, and doesn't really damper their chances of making some money in this market. I'm almost positive that Sony has put out a better overall product out there, and will slowly gain ground on the Kindle.

Yet you have a Kindle?

He he, sorry I couldn't resist. I agree though, Sony has a bajillion departments. I'm pretty sure this is a department they won't be having a problem with.

thibaulthalpern · 04-02-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindorsey

I'd say Sony is going to give Amazon a hell of a fight. They know how to take over a market over time.

Not always.

Umm...

iPod vs. Sony's MP3 player, anyone?

VHS (JVC) vs. Betamx (Sony), anyone?

Penforhire · 04-02-2009, 01:43 PM

Sony's media snafu's are legion. Mini-disk? Memory stick (they are still pushing this, give me a break!)? UMD disks (PSP)? Super Audio CD? DDS sound?

They have a storied history of wanting to dominate through their own media standards and failing miserably, despite making some darn fine hardware.

Neil · 04-03-2009, 12:53 AM

Anyone who lived through the Sony CLIE experience will be loathe to trust Sony again in a technology war. Although they were actually threatening to beat Palm at one point they simply walked away from the CLIE and left their users hanging. I think their ereader is a device just waiting to be abandoned as they apparently have very little corporate committment to anything that isn't a TV.

03-31-2009, 04:59 PM	#18
Gideon Wearer of Pants Posts: 1,050 Karma: 7634 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norman, OK Device: Amazon Kindle DX / iPhone	I did some tests a while back (may be able to find it around here). Basically... Out of the last 13 books I purchased only two or three were available in any store besides the Kindle store. And the Kindle store had them MUCH cheaper (often as much as 50% cheaper). It's not really just numbers, though. Technically, with this Google deal sony has more now. But it's 100 year old books in the public domain... most of the public domain people may want is available across the board. I'm not sure that means anything, then. As to what most people want... I dunno. I don't read like most people. I imagine best sellers are probably available everywhere. But I tend to read non-fiction, and the Kindle absolutely owns the genre. To me it is the issue. I had a Sony reader, and liked it, but I was frustrated at not being able to find ANYTHING I wanted for it, and if I did - it was extraordinarily expensive for an ebook. I still can't get a LOT of what I want, but I can get a decent amount. It does always suck when you get stuck with a topaz file, though. Doesn't happen often. The content discussion always has to be couched in "what you read." If you read things in the public domain (classics, etc) almost exclusively - anything will work. If you read a lot of genre fiction (scifi, romance, etc.) you'll have a lot of options across the board. If you read new releases you'll have a lot of options. But if you read more nonfiction, you don't have a lot of options. If you want newspapers and magazines (and for some reason calibre isn't an option), you don't have a lot of good options. Even if you read a bit more... vague fiction, you don't have a lot of options. So it's really always about what you read, how you're going to do it. The good news is that on the Kindle... you're not limited much. Prices are better most the time, and very little is available for other formats that is not available for the Kindle. If that changes, and someone else gets the goods.. I'll jump ship. I'm only interested in content and price. Brand loyalty is for suckers. Last edited by Gideon; 03-31-2009 at 05:03 PM.

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03-31-2009, 03:42 PM	#17
dmaul1114 Wizard Posts: 2,300 Karma: 1121709 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Amazon Kindle 1	I did a good bit of research trying to decide Sony vs. Kindle and went with a used Kindle 1. The Kindle store and wireless access where the main factors. More books in kindle store and every book I was interested in and looked up was cheaper on the kindle store, and I like not having to hook up to a PC to transfer stuff. I'm not one to shop around, get books from different places etc.--just the Kindle store and Feedbooks mainly so the Kindle fit my needs best as convenience was the main concern. The DRM bothers me fundamentally--but the Sony store books are DRMed as well and honestly I'm not much affected with eBooks (vs. say music) as I pretty much never re-read a book. And anything I do re-read I want a paper book of anyway.

03-31-2009, 11:41 PM	#19
katewilly Enthusiast Posts: 36 Karma: 13912 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Alabama Device: sony 700, iTouch, iPhone, nook, iPad 2	I don't think Kindle can crown itself as the Ipod of the reading world yet. Reading is a little more complicated than listening and there has to be a multitude of hardware form factors to satisfy the masses. My prediction...B&N will take over the Sony bookstore (if Sony is truly suffering hard times), as it did FW, and capitalize on offering multiple file formats, serving different hardware platforms, plus adding incentives in its brick stores. I can understand that a lot of users love their Kindles and are really attracted by its features. It is one of many possibilities for people who love to read. And I hope it continues to be successful for its followers. However, I haven't found a Kindle feature yet that I MUST have. Because I'm home-bound, I don't need WhisperNet, and I'm not comfortable with a lot of buttons that I don't need, until I absolutely need them. I like the virtual keyboard of my Sony 700. But that's just me, and illustrates the different preferences amongst human readers. Between PD books, Sony bookstore, and FW membership/micropay (which offers a lot of gift opportunities for my family), I've only rarely paid more than $10 for a book. And I have yet to find where Amazon offered something that wasn't available elsewhere for no more than a $1.00 more, and sometimes I've paid less.

04-01-2009, 11:01 AM	#21
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I think Kate means having a PC at home is sufficient to shop freely. Most of us with high-speed internet access have an always-on connection. Whispernet seems really convenient when you're NOT home or if you're not PC literate.

04-01-2009, 11:20 AM	#23
Volonox Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: PRS-500	There is a significant difference between books and music that many fail to see. While it is important to be able to buy a music track on the go, which would normally cost less than a buck and is less than 5 minutes in length, buying books on the go isn't that significant in comparison. I buy a music track just to try it out and see whether that artist's work is worth listening too or not. But since reading books takes a significantly longer time and is a far more cerebral activity, I usually tend to read at least a couple of reviews before deciding to buy it and it will take me days to weeks to finish reading it. So, I can buy a couple of books a month and I am sure I will have enough time on a PC to do that, while I wouldn't want to get on a computer every time I want to buy a song. Also, the audiences are very different. Music is more mainstream and almost everybody listens to it, while reading has a smaller audience and generally has a higher rate of well-educated people (no statistics here, just my observation). There isn't much money to be made in books compared to music. I don't know why Amazon is so eager to claim this market for itself, and comparing itself to Apple and its iPod is ridiculous in my opinion. I'm off-topic here, am I not?

04-01-2009, 12:03 PM	#24
Jovvi Connoisseur Posts: 56 Karma: 948222 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sweden Device: Cybook Gen3, Cybook Opus, iPad and HTC Wildfire (Android)	I think it was a very interesting article, but... As always very US-centered. Yes I would love to be able to use whispernet to download books, but Amazon just won´t let me since they won´t sell a Kindle to me. Hopefully in the future other reading devices will have similar features, so we won´t have to long for a Kindle. I often feel that you Kindle owners are just telling everybody to get a Kindle cause it´s great, but then forgets those of us that can´t get it. Yes I know, I could perhaps get one at ebay using some eleborate scheme, but what would be the point? If I could not get the (for me) most interesting feature (whispernet and the easy way to purcase books via kindlestore). The rest of the features of the Kindle doesn´t differ that much to the other devises, some may even be better (nicer looking, touchscreen, lighter, more formats and so on). Clara

04-01-2009, 01:54 PM	#26
kevindorsey Evangelist Posts: 488 Karma: 258 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: kindle	Amazon never had a launch of a product of this magnitude(and making electronics has never been thier forte anyways), and Sony is a seasoned veteran in these games. I'd say the losses that they are experiencing are just part of the global game that has enveloped every large company, and doesn't really damper their chances of making some money in this market. I'm almost positive that Sony has put out a better overall product out there, and will slowly gain ground on the Kindle.

04-02-2009, 01:43 PM	#29
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	Sony's media snafu's are legion. Mini-disk? Memory stick (they are still pushing this, give me a break!)? UMD disks (PSP)? Super Audio CD? DDS sound? They have a storied history of wanting to dominate through their own media standards and failing miserably, despite making some darn fine hardware.

04-03-2009, 12:53 AM	#30
Neil Addict Posts: 242 Karma: 10932816 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: iPad Mini 6, iPad Air, Kindles HD 8, HD 10, Oasis 3, Scribe, Colorsoft	Anyone who lived through the Sony CLIE experience will be loathe to trust Sony again in a technology war. Although they were actually threatening to beat Palm at one point they simply walked away from the CLIE and left their users hanging. I think their ereader is a device just waiting to be abandoned as they apparently have very little corporate committment to anything that isn't a TV.

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